Umineko – Turn of the Golden Witch – Extras

IT HAS WORDS NOW

Also, if you haven’t read Higurashi, GO DO IT YOU FOOL there are endgame spoilers in here.

ANYWAY TIME FOR THE REAL PARTY

Bea and Rika, go!

Bea’s like you’re just a sore loser and Rika’s all I do not know about what you are speaking and Bea’s all oh please I know you have a horse in this race.

Beatrice: “……*cackle*cackle*! Truly interesting! That I should be granted a chance to fight with Lady Bernkastel, the strongest of witches who defeated Lady Lambdadelta, is truly a pleasure!!”
Bernkastel: “……Yes. I’m also pleased. I really wanted to see you, brimming with confidence, fall apart and lose, so I came all this way.”
Beatrice: “What an honest person. *cackle*cackle*!! Even so, it would be a shame if the contest between me and the great Lady Bernkastel was resolved without at least one observer.”

Rika is like, …you didn’t, and Bea is all oh but I did.

Ah, it’s kid!Takano. Makes sense, since it was when she was little that all the bad stuff happened and she vowed revenge. The whole Lambadelta thing confused me for a second but I’d forgotten that Takano had that whole 3-4 motif going on. Not sure what’s up with the pumpkin, though. I could see Miyoko enjoying the whole lolita look but the Halloween motif feels out of place.

Rika: “…How are you, Lambda? Looks like you’ve got lots of spare time too. I wonder if it’s fate that the pair who hates boredom should run into each other again…”
“Stupid kid. Can’t you see you only won against me because of a little luck and a problem of compatibility? After that, you became such a brag, and now you’re even picking a fight with Beatrice? Shouldn’t you learn your place?”
Takano: “*giggle* Beatrice is strong. And she’s even more brutal than I am. Just a bit! And by the way, don’t go shortening people’s names without their permission!”
Rika: “…You’re dumb too, Beato. If this kid’s in your game, she’ll make a mess of everything.”
Bea: “I certainly didn’t just bring Lady Lambdadelta here to watch from the sidelines.”

Bea says that when Takano heard Rika was going to fight Bea, she insisted on helping Bea against Rika.

Bernkastel: “…………Do as you like. …Now that I’ve been exposed, allow me to get serious.”

Takano’s like LET’S HAVE A STRATEGY MEETING and runs over. Rika and Bea banter a little and then Bea follows.

Rika turns to the camera.

She apologizes for Miyoko.

Oh, this is true. Does that mean that a witch!Battler has been created??? Oh man I hope that’s what happened that would be amazing.

Rika apologizes for her interest causing Miyoko to get mixed up in this as well.

…I am a witch who was born from there. ……So maybe I’m like an older sister to you. So I decided that I’d lend you my power. However, …………even compared to my fate, ……yours is… truly brutal. Not only do I sympathize with you, I’m almost brought to tears by your tragic fate.

But please, don’t lose heart. Please don’t submit to Beato, no matter what. Certainly, that child’s game is quite unfair. I’ve only been allowed a glimpse of the game board, but the unfair and clever devices set up on the stage are so disgusting that they probably far surpass those of Lambdadelta’s game board.

I’m not sure Bat’s fate is worse than Rika’s. For one, Battler is here willingly. For another, the end result here isn’t the extermination of an entire town, it’s the murder of some jackass family on their private island. Plus, only meta!Bat seems to know what’s going on — unlike Rika, the re-Bat in each route doesn’t seem aware of the fact that he’s living through the experience over and over, which was definitely part of the horror of what Rika went through. Also, Battler knows his end goal. Rika had absolutely no idea who was behind everything until the final route. So, yeah. Though I do think it’s in character for Rika to have this kind of empathy and possibly even to feel as though his fate is worse.

Rika also gives us some advice — Bea doesn’t always make the best moves. Sometimes she makes moves that are less tough to counter, but have more interesting results, or are just more confusing. This makes is hard to use her moves to see the overall strategy, but it also creates chinks in her armor. For Bea, the game itself is where the joy really comes from, and she’s willing to potentially sacrifice a win to create a great game; this is the opposite of Takano, who was always trying to make the best moves no matter what.

What’s the most important element in defense during a witch’s battle? Rather than trying to win, try not to lose.

Rika wishes us luck and a nipa~ and vanishes.

But then Lamba appears.

She gloats a bit, and then basically tells us the same thing that Rika did, that Bea tends to be more concerned with means than ends. I wonder why they both went through this. I assume it’s key next route. It’s also something we’ve heard before… did Kinzo say something like “her means become her ends” or was that in the last ??? scene?

It looks like you regained a little of your complexion. That Beato, she’s having fun torturing some piece called Rosa. At a glance, you’d say think she has a really bad habit, right? Wrong. ……She’s just killing time, hoping that you’ll stand back up and return. It’s a move to fire up your righteous indignation by intentionally doing something detestable.

Oh, interesting, so this is all before the last scene.

 I, the strongest witch in the universe, had my throne stolen away when I lost to Bern! So I’ve gotta take that throne back from her, but if she loses to Beato here, then it’s Beato who’ll get the position of strongest next, right?! …Well, it’s not like I’m complaining. It’d be easier to steal the throne back from Beato, but then I wouldn’t be satisfied, you see?! I will defeat Bern! And I’ll take back my position as the strongest!

With that, she vanishes.

However! There are a couple of things I want to look at, namely the updated postgame character profiles.

This time, on the magic side, it’s not just Bea and Rika — there’s a whole bunch, including all the non-goat furniture and some family members.

I’m not going to pick out everyone, just the ones where something struck me, but you can read them all here. Though a warning — the comments the LPer leaves can contain spoilers. Skip things in italics.

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Here we get to learn about witch!Takano, which is interesting but not terribly shocking or anything.

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So this is where I think it starts to get interesting. This route, toward the end, start to sell the idea that Battler is very much like Kinzo, with Genji’s weird alcoholism comment, and it continues here, with this saying Battler inherited both Kinzo’s power and the type of power. These lines getting drawn between Bat and Kinzo are interesting, partially because I don’t know what to make of them, since all we know of Kinzo right now is really that he’s lost his mind. But Bea’s interest in defeating Bat does make a lot more sense if you assume she’s seeing Kinzo in him.

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Speaking of enchantments, while we saw one of Maria’s magic items in the first route, it didn’t come up this time. I wonder if this is to remind us before it starts to matter again in round 3.

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SO. I’ve been waiting for this.

All this business with hearts kiiinda explains Genji’s weirdness last route in magic!verse. If Genji’s emotions are kind of dulled and he’s an older, simpler iteration of the model, it explains why he seemed to have no reaction to anything and why he was so dedicated to his duty far past the point where it mattered at all. I think there’s a degree to which this also can account for nomagic!verse Genji, in that a man who’s spent his entire life as a servant to one man and comes from a time where that kind of authority was really important in a culture where social order is absolutely everything is perhaps obviously not going to have the ‘heart’ of younger people like Shannon and Kanon. In a old-dog-new-tricks kind of way, I think it’s possible for Genji to continue to be dedicated to his role without it meaning he’s in cahoots with whoever the murderer is. He also seems like someone who reacts to trauma by clamming up. Combine these things, and you get the weird, suspicious behavior we saw last time. If this is accurate, then, Genji’s character arc will involve something popping up to force him to have heart, to react, to break this facade that has been his entire being for his whole life.

Alternatively, that won’t happen because he’s just furniture.

Anyway, this is all the content for this route, but we’re not quite done — next time is the character roundup, and then there’s the conclusion post, and then we move on to the next route.

33 Comments

  1. Act says:

    OH SHIT I FORGOT TO UPDATE IT

    I have to go to work but I’ll fix it later!

    edit: it fix

  2. beanbug says:
    Lambda’s a fun character-totally forgot she came up here, could’ve sworn her intro was during Episode 3.

    Fun Lambda fact for those who checked the LParchive thing instead of zetaboards (please do that! The LParchive is totally spoiler free), she shares a VA with Tanako. Bern is similar, and shares a VA with Rika.

    Beato’s VA is Sayaka Ohara, who’s got a couple well-known roles. Erza from Fairy Tale, Irisviel from Fate, Mercy’s Japanese dub, and…Yuko, from xxxHOLIC. There’s a lot of fun similarities between the two; mysterious magic user with a butterfly motif who will give her your power…for a price. xxxHOLIC had its airing a little before Umineko was released, and I’d argue that R07 definitely at least read the manga for it. They also both use kiseru (the smoking pipe), which is…..definitely a bit too much to be a coincidence.

    Lambda’s outfit is…long story short, a lot of outfits in Umineko are from the Gothic Lolita Bible. There’s a big comparison post here, but it is full-on spoilers.

    This is Lambda’s outfit:

    There’s a couple others (Rosa, Natsuhi) that were also really close, but the really on-point ones are the fantasy cast, most of whom you haven’t met yet.

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    1. Cosmogone says:
      …Ryukishi reads Gothic Lolita Bible. Something about this fact just makes me happy.
      1. beanbug says:
        Yup. Umineko has a lot of fancy designs, so I guess it makes a bit of sense; lolita is hard to design! 

        Here’s a couple more; some pretty close to the final design, some inspired. Not sure how big they’ll be, so read more tag to the rescue! 

        Once you get past that, you tend to get either original outfits or ones that are pretty obviously inspired, but aren’t direct copies.

        With Battler, you can see where the button part of his design came from. And the zipper…though it seems the bell-bottom buttons got reconned out in the PS3 release? 

        Can I just say how much I love Shannon’s face in the original version? Conveys a lot more emotion than the PS3 sprite. She’s one of the more inspired sprites; you can see where the detached skirt comes from, and the corset-style thing. NGL, R07’s version is a lot nicer.

        Last but not least…

        Okay yeah the read more was a good idea. You can see where the idea for the gold and the sleeves came from pretty clearly here. 

         

        Anyways, that’s the cast thus far. iirc nobody else had similar outfits. 

        1. beanbug says:
          wow that read more. did not work. 

          uh

          mods, if you wanna edit a readmore or delete the post because it’s SO MASSIVE. you’re more than welcome to. 

          1. Act says:

            I think it might minimize if you put it under a spoiler? TBH I don’t care but if other people find it distracting I’ll fool around and try to find a solution.

            1. Heatth says:

              Large images like this seem to mess up the “go to comment” function when you click in the sidebar. I think it is because it sometimes go to the comment before loading the image, which then shift the screen around.

              Reply
            2. illhousen says:

              Yes, but images in the post proper also mess with the function for the same reason, so those images are not a huge deal in context.

              Reply
        2. Hyatt says:
          I’m surprised Maria’s outfit isn’t inspired by one from there.
          1. beanbug says:
            Yeah, the OP of the post said it’s kinda obvious she’s in casual lolita, but couldn’t find anything. There’s a couple others like that, such as Kanon, who looks to be wearing ouji lolita. 
        3. Cosmogone says:
          I really love this. It makes me appreciate Shannon’s ridiculous dress more, because it seems like the one with the most of Ryukishi’s personal input went into.

          This makes me question the Stakes’ designs even more though. Damn it, Ryukishi, you had such a good reference pool, couldn’t you have dressed the poor girls in something nicer? Or better yet, why not dress them in something simpler but make them more monstrous, like the youma from Sailor Moon? (I’m sorry, I just can’t let this go)

          1. Heatth says:

            The Stakes design are a reference to Higurashi. It is the uniform of the moe café Angel Mort. Here picture:

            Angel Mort uniform

            Not that this remove his blame, of course. He is still the one who created the original design, after all. And although it is a somewhat amusing reference he could have jsut not.

            1. Cosmogone says:
              Yeah, I remember Angel Mort, but imo, the uniforms that looked somewhat appropriate there look downright silly in Umineko. It’s not the skimpiness I have a problem with but how uninspired the Stakes’ clothes look, which in turn makes them feel gratuitous. It’s rather counter-intuitive, but I think that it’d look much more dignified if Ryukishi drew them essentially naked and just covered strategical bits of skin with scales/blood/poisonous vines/outright body horror. When done right, stuff like this actually looks like Renaissance religious art.
              Reply
            2. Heatth says:

              Heh, that could have looked cool.

              Reply
          2. illhousen says:

            I kinda misread you at first and thought you were proposing making Shannon more monstrous. Which would actually be amusing.

            Anyway, R07 is rather clearly inspired by Ars Goetia in his demonology, which makes it very disappointing that he didn’t draw on it for actual character designs. Depictions of demons in Ars Goetia are fucking amazing.

            Here’s Asmodeus, for example:

            (I would actually be OK with the current uniform for this character.)

            In general, I’m eternally frustrated with media depicting demons as, like, sexy succubae or bishie boy with horns or whatever when we could have this:

            And that’s one of the mild designs.

            1. CrazyEd says:

              I kinda misread you at first and thought you were proposing making Shannon more monstrous. Which would actually be amusing.

              Or one of you could just actually comment on the giant fucking lizard tail that she’s been dragging around this entire time. Isn’t that monstrous enough?

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            2. Cosmogone says:
              >>I kinda misread you at first and thought you were proposing making Shannon more monstrous. Which would actually be amusing.

              HEH. Well, I certainly wouldn’t object to this.

              My personal favorite from Ars Goetia is Buer:

              He just wants to heal all of your ailments and teach you some natural philosophy, honest!

              Reply
            3. beanbug says:

              I kinda misread you at first and thought you were proposing making Shannon more monstrous. Which would actually be amusing.

              George: You have such lovely eyes, Shannon. And a lovely face. And a lovely…..

              Shannon, blushing: it’s my prehensile stinger. Isn’t it lovely?

               

              On the topic of Ars Goetia…

              sword bird best bird. my condolences to leggy owl.

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              Reply
        4. Act says:

          This is so cool! I like that you can see for some he took bits and pieces while for others he was clearly like, “Yes, this was exactly what I had in mind!”

          It’s interesting to see them contextualized because I think for mostof the oufits I wouldn’t have pegged them as lolita-style on my own — they fit so well and and naturally into the setting that they don’t feel like costumes in the way a lot of lolita fashion does.

          1. Heatth says:

            I was going to say that Kinzo was born in the wrong century and that if he was a teenager today he would heads deep into the lolita community (is that how you call it, it sounds weird). But apparently the movement started in the 60s! (it wasn’t called that, though)

            I guess Kinzo is still too old for it, but make you wonder if his family has any connection to it at all. Like, Rosa is president of design company. Maybe it is for they are her target market.

  3. illhousen says:

    Not much to say about this update, so have something I just something I remembered seeing:

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  4. My hovercraft is full of spoilers!!! Therefore I continue to say nothing. Except possibly lol.

     

    Also, y’all be very wary of commenting about things. We kept saying everything is spoilers at the start and, lo and behold, %80 of everything is still spoilers %20 of the way in. I love the blind flailing in the dark that’s going on in this post here. This is what I signed up for. Protip: Don’t ruin this.[/blogpolice]

  5. Heatth says:

    I’m not sure Bat’s fate is worse than Rika’s. For one, Battler is here willingly. For another, the end result here isn’t the extermination of an entire town, it’s the murder of some jackass family on their private island.

    Rika wasn’t aware of the Hinamizawa disaster. For all she knew what was happening was that a friend of hers went crazy and then she died. That was the fate she was trying to fight. The whole town also dying was a consequence of her own death that she wasn’t really aware of.

    As for Battler’s fate not being so bad in comparison. The thing it is his family. Even if they are all a bunch of assholes, he still loves them. So that is why he suffers more than Rika, I guess (then again, Rika’s family also died, though she seemed to stop caring). I do agree that even with these consideration, Battler’s fate doesn’t seem particularly worse.

    1. Hyatt says:

      Rika wasn’t aware of the Hiroshima disaster.

      Hinamizawa. She was probably aware of Hiroshima, unless the public education and local knowledge of national history really sucked.

      1. Heatth says:

        You never know! Rika was 9 in a very rual town. The local public educaiton is clearly not great, considering it was a single teacher teaching simultaneously kids of all ages. Maybe they never learned about Hiroshima because it would be too scary for the younger ones.

        (fixed, thanks)

  6. Cosmogone says:
    Omg, omg, omg, it’s Takano. I love her and I love her stupid dress.

    >>I’m not sure Bat’s fate is worse than Rika’s.

    Mm. I think she means something else. Back in the first route, Bernkastel said that Beata always cheats, so maybe the game is unwinnable? I believe someone mentioned in the comments that truth is a central theme of Umineko. What if the truth of the mystery is something so horrific Battler will rather chose to lose the game and aknowledge Beatrice? Or your theory about Battler himself being the killer is true, I’m really in love with this one.

    >>In a old-dog-new-tricks kind of way, I think it’s possible for Genji to continue to be dedicated to his role without it meaning he’s in cahoots with whoever the murderer is. 

    Huh. You know, that’s a really good point.

    On a different topic, does Shannon seriously has the one-winged eagle tattoed on her body? I don’t remember anyone commenting on it, but that’s creepy af.

    1. Actislazyandwontlogin says:
      RE: Shannon: I wonder that every time I see her full-body sprite. Do the other orphan-servants also have tattoos? Was it just a limitation of her costume design? Is it actually an important plot point? WHO KNOWS
      1. Cosmogone says:
        I guess it’s probably intentional, to hammer home the fact that they belong to Kinzo… But it’s really weird how nobody says anything, so idek.
        1. beanbug says:
          without love, the potential for genji to have a one-winged eagle tramp stamp cannot be seen.
          5
  7. Hyatt says:
    The witches all seem pretty chummy for opponents. Wanting to defeat each other won’t keep them from sharing a good laugh together at the readers’ expense.

    Whose side is Lambda on? She says she’s helping Beato, but she’s giving us the same tips as Bern.

    Has Kinzo’s black blood been brought up before? Battler’s and Maria’s profiles both mention it, but don’t explain why it gave Battler a resistance to magic and Maria an affinity for it.

    1. beanbug says:
      Beato did, early in episode 2 when speaking to Shannon. 

      …Kinzo is the same. There is no one with a more pitiful lack of magical talent. It’s the blood. He has so little talent that I feel sorry for him

      That was because… even though he didn’t have a scrap of talent, he succeeded. He kept studying by himself like mad, and reached the level of magician.

      i…..honestly do not get why they’re saying maria got her power through kinzo when the narritive explicitly states he has no notable magic power. 

      1. SpoonyViking says:

        I think the idea is that Maria inherited a reversal of Kinzo’s gift: where he is abnormally resistant to magic, she is abnormally open to magic.

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