Well, first I mislaid the game and then I left the notes on the wrong computer, so here we are again!
Last time, instead of properly warning either Michael or Murphy, Harry rushes off to save Murphy and gets there too late, so off he goes to try to save Michael.
Now, previously, Harry visited Micky (it seems like M is a cursed letter this book) and gone on about their wonderfully homey home. Now he’s doing the same thing about Michael’s place, which is a chunk of suburbia with, yes, white picket fences, plopped into Chicago.
Someone mentioned the idea that this book is partly about Harry just mooning over what he doesn’t have, namely happy couples, and yeah, that’s probably the writer’s conscious intent. The subconscious part is that “what Harry doesn’t have” isn’t specifically a wife or a settled married life, but the full 1950s affair. The house is identified as Michael’s, Michael’s job provides for all or at least most of it, and his wife’s primary job must be taking care of their many kids and keeping the house in order.
Harry does have most of this – we’re getting this presented like it’s Harry looking longingly in, but Rodriguez loves him and he has a perfectly nice place of his own – his “apartment” is effectively a one-story house with a finished basement. But Rodriguez isn’t bound to him, and the house isn’t being kept pretty by her with meals on the table when he comes home. I don’t think Harry could actually express this – I think if he was directly asked if he wanted Rodriguez to lose her job, he’d be horrified, and if she chose to quit he’d be upset because he knows she loves it and he wouldn’t want her to be unhappy. But he has a script for what a happy life is supposed to be, and it’s him being the breadwinner while wifey bakes supper and watches the kids play in their fenced-in suburban yard.
Continuing our broad archetypes, when Michael comes to the door he’s wearing a T-shirt with JOHN 3:16 across his chest and god am I sick of that. I mean, if you just want to stamp HE’S A CHRISTIAN across his chest, Christians conveniently have a symbol for that very reason!
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
There’s just nothing to engage with here, it’s pretty much Christianity’s mission statement. There’s definitely things you could poke at here (what happens if a fairy believes in Jesus?) but they’re the same basic problems as were already raised with the issue of Michael squaring unbreakable faith in a monotheistic religion with a kitchen sink setting. Plus, and I really can’t overemphasize this, it’s EVERYWHERE. I recognized it without even remembering the verse. As soon as I saw “John” my brain fills in 3:16. USE OTHER PASSAGES DAMMIT.
Now, a quick google for “cool bible verses” gets me http://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/short-bible-verses/ and it includes the goddamn John 3:16 in there so the rest of the verses are at least in the same ballpark according to whatever credentials belong to a person on a website about studying the bible.
The very first one seems promising: 1 Chronicles 16:11 Look to the LORD and his strength; seek his face always.
That sounds pretty suitable for a not!paladin, and the second half works well at trying to justify how you can hold to monotheism in a kitchen-sink setting. It’s like that idea that every time unrelated religions have similar stories, it’s not because your own stories are just part of how humans make up stories, it’s because those other religions got a distorted version of your truth.
Some others:
2 Timothy 1:7 For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.
Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
Philippians 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!
Proverbs 18:10 The name of the LORD is a fortified tower; the righteous run to it and are safe.
Philippians 4:13 I can do all this through him who gives me strength.
The sort of person who says “Rejoice!” is different from the one who says, “Repent!” even if they both believe Jesus is the only son of God. And the sort of person to have Proverbs 18:10 on a shirt is someone who it makes total sense would tell Harry he has nothing to fear and should totally say he loves Rodriguez and also marry her, with the bonus that he sounds like he’s actually aware at of the bible as a whole and not just buying tacky crap because it lets him signify his ingroup loyalties.
In terse terms, I outlined what I’d learned about the Nightmare, and how it was getting to its victims.
And then the books gets weird.
That line is precisely how you’re supposed to handle bringing other characters up to speed when the reader already knows and doesn’t need to hear it again. Then Michael gets dialogue repeating back everything Harry just told him, because good writing can go fuck itself I guess.
Michael then asks what if Harry is the real demon trying to get an invite, which is a valid consideration yet just saying it makes me sad this didn’t happen. I guess ghostmonster!Harry has been infected with his laziness and didn’t think to try this very tactic.
“Either way, it’s better if I stay out here. Charity would probably gouge out my eyes for showing up at this hour.”
Michael nodded. “Come on in, Harry. Let me put the baby to bed.”
Also, of course…Harry knows this is the right response, which means ghostmonster!Harry knows it’s the right response, which means this does not, in fact, prove this is real Harry. The proper thing to do would be for Harry to hop across the threshold and leave his power at the door, proving there’s a regular human him there – come to think of it, that’s really the polite thing to always do as a wizard, isn’t it? Among wizards, insisting on an invite for “politeness” is really more like demanding the homeowner let you keep your assault rifle with you the whole time.
Michael then continues to not take this threat seriously by arguing with Harry that he shouldn’t bother to wake his family up just because there’s a chance of being tortured into madness or death, because, like, in Michael’s uninformed opinion, he is totally sure anything that made itself a temporary physical body is never not in a physical body again, and therefore it’s out of the Nevernever, problem solved forever.
Besides, Michael continues, even if, somehow, the thing that can pop between the two worlds does that again, it’ll only go after him! It’s not like ghosts or demons are known for collateral damage or pettiness, or that this specific ghost-demon has shown a consistent pattern of destroying whatever’s in the vicinity when it can’t get its target immediately.
Harry tacitly agrees with this point by saying that this particular ghost-demon now has a chunk of him in it, and for THAT reason it’ll go after Michael’s family.
Then he sees a note from Charity saying she went out for pizza and icecream because pregnancy cravings.
“What are you waiting for, Harry? Let’s go find her.”
“But your kids-”
Michael rolled his eyes, took a step to the door, and jerked it open without looking away from me.
Father Forthill stood on the other side, his thinning hair windblown, his bright blue eyes surprised behind his wire-rimmed spectacles. “Oh. Michael. I didn’t mean to stop by so late, but my car stalled only a block from here on the way back from taking Mrs. Hamish home, and I thought I might borrow-” He paused, looking from me to Michael and then back to me again. “You need a babysitter again, don’t you.”
Now, this is a very good demonstration of God’s favor, isn’t it?
But the reason it works so well is because we all know that’s not how it works for anybody else.
I think the real issue I have is simply a matter of infinities. If Michael and Forthill were followers of Hol the Holy Light, but one of a pantheon of deities whose powers were limited and at times directly opposed by competing forces, and who perhaps furthermore could only influence the lives of those who followed it, then of course Hol deserves no blame for all the times everyone else’s life doesn’t run smoothly. If you want that, head to your local Hol community center and become one with the collective. Now your car will only break down for a reason!
If, on the other hand, we’re talking God, the one and only, the capital-letter-getting…why doesn’t everything work this way? Even if we say we’ll go with the idea he’s such a petty egomaniac he’ll refuse to help out anyone who doesn’t spend at least one day a week singing about how awesome he is, there’s the simple fact he doesn’t do this for almost any of them either!
Moveover, given God can do anything, the fact he choses “car accident provides babysitter” over “not living in a world where a ghost tortures people into madness” is pretty damning.
We started out of the house and to Michael’s truck. “You see, Harry?”
I scowled. “Handy fringe benefit.”
And this is just baffling.
So, for one thing the implication of this is that we’re not even going to think about being the guy whose car broke down – I think a lot of people would be fine signing up for that sort of thing, but the way it’s presented is simply God provides, without considering that other times you’re what God’s providing. Because some people are the heroes and other people are the helpful support.
For another, just…what is he scowling about? What point is being proven? Harry was wrong about needing a sitter because god, okay, but normally this exchange is the skeptic saying it could still be coincidence and isn’t all that impressive really, not “yes this is definitely proof of your beliefs however is is but minor benefit compared to the many other things your god provides, so shut up”.
So, they hop in the car and go toward a local store, where they find Charity’s car. See, despite living in a big city, they have two cars. Thanks for not helping with the gridlock.
The rain pasted his hair down to his head after a few steps, soaking his Levi’s jacket dark blue. I followed him, wincing at the damage to my leather duster, and reflecting that the old canvas job would have fared better in this weather.
Okay, so, new theory. His jacket is untreated leather. That’s why everyone treats it as a ridiculous fashion accessory and assumes it’ll be wrecked by anything, it’s intentionally made to not be useable. It’s still pretty easily fixed, because leather is a great, great substance, but Harry strikes me as the sort of person who throws out pants when a button pops off.
They go into the store and there’s no sign of Charity.
the nearest cashier, a too-skinny, too-blonde girl who looked as though she were impatient for her cigarette break
God, I hate Harry.
They ask if they saw a pregnant lady or a guy who looks like Harry but dressed in all black rather than just mostly black. They still refuse to use my handy “evil twin” shorthand to try to get people to register there’s an emergency, though in a little bit Harry will use it flippantly, or even suggest in any way that anyone is in actual danger and this is important.
The girl licked her lips and gave us a calculating look. “Maybe I have,” she said. “What’s in it for me?”
Michael rolled forward a step, a growl bubbling up out of his throat. I grabbed at his shoulder and leaned back. “Whoah, whoah, Michael,” I yelped. “Slow down, man.”
Michael shows his true colors!
Or perhaps not even that, yet. He’s merely concerned at this point – it’s not like his wife is dangling over a pit or something. This isn’t even a particularly hard test of character.
A character who’s portrayed as short-tempered or generally chaotic behaving this way wouldn’t surprise me, but this is our not!paladin who whines about lying to evil people and generally presents himself as a paragon. Now we see that his saintliness is just an act. Presumably, he doesn’t fear much for his own life (he’s going to heaven anyway) so he deals with direct threats in a way that looks like he’s a controlled, moral person, but the moment something is happening that he doesn’t want… He doesn’t speak from a position of weakness, saying that this is his wife, he’s scared for her, please help. He flips immediately to aggression when he doesn’t get his way.
And…what would he have done here if Harry hadn’t stopped him? I mean, you wouldn’t think much, maybe just looming and repeating the question in a threatening way, but if so, why did Harry intervene? We know it takes an awful lot for Harry to see terrorizing women as wrong, and even if he’s trying to be a good friend by keeping his less horrible friend from doing something he’ll feel guilty about later, that still means Michael’s about to do a far worse than merely looming threateningly at her.
Strangely, Harry does not appear to get ALPHA MALE triggered about all this in the least. Possibly it’s the skinny-needing-cigarette thing that makes the teen safe. Everyone knows in shitty thirdhand copies of hardboiled narratives, junkies have no emotions other than wanting more drugs, which means if they’re not scared of you, it doesn’t mean anything about how definitely a real scary man you are.
This could also explain why it occurs to nobody to explain the person they’re looking for is in danger, since caring about others is yet another emotion she cannot, by definition, possess.
Harry instead tries to bribe her with fifteen dollars.
“What? Is this your brother or something, running around with your woman? Am I going to see this on Larry Fowler tomorrow?”
I narrowed my eyes. “It’s complicated,” I said. “What else did you see?”
Harry continues to do his very best to give people no actual reason to want to help him or answer his apparently pointless questions. He eventually gets the answer that she left with extragoth!Harry, then screams at her loud enough to “wobble” her “jaded exterior” when demanding to know what direction, so perhaps this is the bonus points section of the alpha male quiz.
I stopped at Charity’s van for a second, and tapped at the hood. It wobbled up without resistance, to reveal a mess of torn wires and shredded belts and broken pieces of metal.
see, a better sequence would’ve been this – Michael heads into the store, Harry examines surroundings. Harry pops the lid, we all have a moment of horror at the confirmation that the nightmare has already been here, and then Michael charges out saying that they said Charity left already, so now we know either the nightmare’s met her or it’s stalking her as she tries to walk home on foot.
I winced, and shielded my eyes from the rain, trying to scan down the street toward the cemetery. In the far distance, just barely, I saw two figures-one ungainly, with long hair. The other stood tall over her, slender, walking toward the cemetery holding her firmly by the hair.
And this is just absolute garbage. They’ve been in the store for how long now? And how fast does a pregnant woman walk in pouring rain? All they had to do was glance about when they arrived and they should’ve seen her. Now, of course, they’re precisely far away that they can be barely made out, and immediately afterward they turn the corner. Such good timing!
Harry shouts for Michael twice, but he’s not paying attention and is still inside the store looking around, despite the fact this is not the time anyone would be ignoring their friend shouting desperately – but without it, we wouldn’t get a chance for Harry to end the chapter whining about how hard his life is and how shitty the situation is and how he has to do it all by himself, so, here we are.
I mean, if you just want to stamp HE’S A CHRISTIAN across his chest, Christians conveniently have a symbol for that very reason!
Ah, but you see, that’s been getting appropriated so often, and by people who aren’t real Christians! I do see people thinking that a *real* Christian quotes the Bible for everything.
Philippians 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!
Where’s that gif…
The sort of person who says “Rejoice!” is different from the one who says, “Repent!” even if they both believe Jesus is the only son of God.
Let’s face it; Butcher can’t write a Rejoice-r.
Among wizards, insisting on an invite for “politeness” is really more like demanding the homeowner let you keep your assault rifle with you the whole time.
Very true, and interesting. I wonder how that interacts with the whole deal where Harry wasn’t allowed to hurt a recognized emissary, that vampire or whomever. Maybe letting your guests keep their power is a sign of politeness. I mean, the host has an assault rifle too in most non-Mort cases.
For another, just…what is he scowling about? What point is being proven?
I am trying really hard to parse this, and coming up empty. I guess it’s just another conversion tactic? “Look at me, shit just randomly works in my favor because I put Bible verses on my chest?” I mean, Harry scowled instead of scoffing, so Michael managed a rhetorical point. I guess Harry respects power of any kind, even the nebulous, and he is lazy, so Michael showing a concrete way religion made his life more convenient is better than the “You should marry Susan for religious married bliss” arguments.
He doesn’t speak from a position of weakness, saying that this is his wife, he’s scared for her, please help.
That would be the most Christian thing he’s done all book. I actually super dig it when characters that have been all badass and stoic put on the brakes and make genuine emotional appeals.
Here:
A story with Kotomine instead of Michael would be hilarious, though he’s probably more suited for the priest’s role. The scene where he tells Harry about how she ran away would basically go down the same way, but now with extra sinister implications.
Fate/Zero’s Kotomine in his Executor days might be a decent fit in the Michael’s role. We could see his religious crisis develop over the course of this book, as he goes on getting subtly creepier and fascinated by the evil instead of abhorred by it.
I mean, if you look at it in given terms, Kotomine’s character development is going from “Repent” to “Rejoice”, just in the worst way possible.
It actually combines well with the idea that Harry burns out his emotions with magic.
Most of the time, he’s basically empty, going through motions held up by his ideas of how a man should behave (chivalry, some platitudes about doing the right thing, Council’s Laws, etc.), so Kotomine senses in him a kindred spirit.
And occasionally Harry manages to summon some real emotions in a time of crisis, and Kotomine envies him that and tries to understand what makes Harry tick.
And then he stumbles upon a spirit of Gilgamesh sealed in a skull…
True. Also, Claudia would have been pregnant with Caren just a few years before F/Z, so the timelines pretty much fit. You could almost straight-up replace the characters, and Claudia would be much better than Charity for this role.
You could end up with a weird reversal where Kotomine is the apathetic one during the crisis, saying whatevs, Claudia is terminal anyway, and Harry, who is secretly really envious of the “married with a kid on the way” thing, is like hellooooo, you are having a child with this woman and the child is not terminal.
Maybe letting your guests keep their power is a sign of politeness. I mean, the host has an assault rifle too in most non-Mort cases.
Hm, that’s a point. But it seems like tiers are more common than not, so there’d be a lot of situations where the host is going to be outclassed by letting you in, plus a lot of host traditions are about the host taking over responsibility for your wellbeing, in which case insisting on the assault rifle is saying that no, I think you’re incompetent at protecting your own house.
I think there’d probably be a whole range of protocol. I’d bet for people you don’t like showing up (like the situation Harry’s been in twice), well, you don’t want them, so you’ll open the door for their corporal form but you’re not going to make it extra easy. In less tense situations, there’s a sliding scale where you must formally invite in anyone weaker than you or you’re a dick, but it’s very rude for significantly stronger people to demand to be let into your house with enough strength to easily overpower you – your house is your castle. If you ask someone to come to you, though, you’d be expected to formally invite them in even if there’s a huge power imbalance and now they can swat you like a fly, because they’re the one doing you the favor by showing up. Group situations are probably handled with like with the vampire, where everyone is formally invited in at full power but only with an equally formal agreement no one uses it.
This would actually allow Harry sneaking up on Mort to be less assholish – he’s fulfilling his detective need to pounce on the guy, but he’s officially following formal wizard protocol of not demanding an invite from a weaker practitioner. It’s hardly Harry’s fault the guy’s threshold isn’t working, and probably more polite not to draw attention to that anyway.
I actually super dig it when characters that have been all badass and stoic put on the brakes and make genuine emotional appeals.
I know! Plus, it’d help underline how Michael is different than Harry – it’d never occur to Harry to use emotions to connect to other human beings, plus it speaks to the fact Michael is a good person who expects other people to be good. (And the depth of that difference underlines why his wife doesn’t want him around Harry, Harry is not a good person and sometimes people can be too good to realize that.)
Hm, that’s a point. But it seems like tiers are more common than not, so there’d be a lot of situations where the host is going to be outclassed by letting you in
Yeah, that is where the idea runs into problems. It would be interesting if there were some kind of karmic system or other balancing factor in play here. I think it’d be cool if there were different levels of polite invitation. Like, an invitation under armistice forces the overpowered guest to leave some power at the door, say enough to bring them down to the host’s level. Then, if the host tries to take advantage of that, it triggers some bad juju. I think you’re right in that an all-or-nothing system has way too many holes, especially for wizards who don’t lose all their power anyway.
he’s fulfilling his detective need to pounce on the guy, but he’s officially following formal wizard protocol
Damn, that’d be so cool. That’s exactly the kind of loophole abuse I enjoy. Not sure if it actually makes it less dickish, since following an inequitable system just as much as it suits you so you can be a dick without reprisal is still pretty dickish, but I salute the effort.
it’d never occur to Harry to use emotions to connect to other human beings
Sure it does! His anger -> their fear! That’s a connection. One-way, but still a connection. In seriousness, though, I agree. Interestingly enough, in D&D 3rd/3.5 edition (pretty much the most popular one), paladins do not have Intimidation as a class skill. They have Diplomacy only. Thematically, they are not supposed to intimidate Good/Neutral people.
Butcher can’t even crib a stock character correctly.
Not sure if it actually makes it less dickish, since following an inequitable system just as much as it suits you so you can be a dick without reprisal is still pretty dickish, but I salute the effort.
Well, it’d be less dickish if Harry was doing this consistently. Like if he was apologetic about asking for an invite with Micky, and the wife said, “Why? You’ve never made a big deal of this before.” to show Harry doesn’t normally demand invites from muggles.
Conversely, if Harry’s supposed to be a rude-but-wellmeaning antihero type, then always trying to trick muggles into an invite would show he only uses rules when it’s in his benefit. It’s just in Harry’s case he really can’t afford to be any less likable.
You forgot the coolest bible quote of them all, Judge 15:16, on the deadliness of asses’ jawbones. Most fitting for a Paladin.
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*Sigh*
It’s a big book. They’re not all going to be winners.
Hey illhousen, sorry to just reply to a random comment like this, but I’m hoping you have notifications on and I basically just chased you over here because I saw you mention in Farla’s POV and You thread that you’d read a short story written in second person in which the protagonist/reader is being slowly taken over by mind control and I’d love to know where to find it! It sounds beautifully disturbing.
Notifications are currently not working here, but I do generally check the recent comments, so no problem.
As for the story… I may be able to track it down as I vaguely recall where I’ve seen it, but it was written in Russian.
Aaaahhh, thank you for replying! I didn’t realize and didn’t check! And thanks – I only know a small amount of Russian right now, but it is a language I want to improve in because it’s part of my heritage, so someday maybe I can come across it and fully appreciate it! And now I know why my searches were fruitless, lol
Alright. I think I remember it being posted on gameforums.ru, somewhere in the journals section. It was… ah… three years ago? Or thereabouts. I’ll try to track it down over the weekend.
I think you meant to put Grave Peril in the title, not Fool Moon. You already suffered through that one already, no need to torture yourself with it again.
The title is wrong. It’s not Fool Moon anymore, it’s Storm Front.
One good thing I have to say about DragonRaid is that it’s full of bible quotes you can use for religious characters.
Let’s see…
Alright, let’s start with classics:
Romans 8:31b: If God is for us, who can be against us?
The next one doesn’t fit Michael, but it’s just kinda weirdly informal, so here goes:
1 Corinthians 8:1: Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.
Now, let’s get something more bloodthirsty here, that’s what we all want from paladins, after all:
Proverbs 20:30: Blows and wounds cleanse away evil, and beatings purge the innocent being.
Now, for a more weary paladin:
Galatians 6:9: Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
There is a lot more, but those are good highlights.
By chance, I’m currently reading Ana Mardoll’s readthrough of A Wrinkle in Time, in which she describes the author’s faith as Christian Universalist. The relevant text is here: http://www.anamardoll.com/2016/11/time-quintet-waiting-to-be-contradicted.html#more
The gist of it is that Universalists believe that all religions contain a grain of truth and none are entirely correct. The example of four men in a dark room describing an elephant comes up often. Of course, they still postulate that Christianity is less wrong than other religions and that Universalism in particular is right in its assertion that no one knows the whole picture.
That does seem like a religion fit for a fantasy kitchen sink setting if you absolutely must keep Christianity around.
Though it’s funny to imagine God orchestrating disaster after disaster in priest’s life just to provide for Michael.
“Oh no! My house is flooding! …Oh, Michael. I see, you need a few gallons of holy water and can’t wait.”
“Oh no! My car was stolen! Better go to the police. …Oh, Michael. I see, you need someone to bail you out again.”
“Oh no! My father had a stroke! Better hurry to a hospital! …Oh, Michael. I see, you need someone to drive your wife from the hospital home.”
It’s kinda hilarious theologically. Probably why God does it.
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It’s kinda hilarious theologically. Probably why God does it.
The priest is probably also O Negative, just in case Michael is sorely injured. He’s almost definitely a passable cook, and his church probably has a mancave filled with spare communion wine for reasons that definitely made sense at the time.
What really gets me is that it’s God’s own priest that is getting the shaft here. As if God can only tilt die rolls in his paladin’s favor by screwing over the cleric. Father “Job” Forthill here hasn’t gotten anything, really, out of his relationship with God, except a junkie dumped in his lap and a broken car.
Obviously, God uses a variant of Unfair Excellence Endowment (or rather a charm that builds on it) which allows Him to grant various beneficial effects to one character at a cost to another.
Both characters must have a positive Intimancy towards God for the effect to work, however.
Of course, they still postulate that Christianity is less wrong than other religions and that Universalism in particular is right in its assertion that no one knows the whole picture.
Eh, I mean, you’ve got to have some level of belief – “I think maybe we’re all equally wrong or maybe actually some other religion is totally right” isn’t something you can do anything with, and really, you’re going to run into the “you say you’re not judging but you guys think you’re /more/ right” with any religious tolerance, because the act of tolerance is itself a point of disagreement with any one-true-way religion AND disagreement with any atheists who don’t believe in a path in the first place.
It’s kinda hilarious theologically. Probably why God does it.
The thing is, you could actually make this functional. If you know God only makes bad things happen so you can be free babysitting or whatever, then you can buy a pile of rust and blue smoke off some dude on a street corner secure in the knowledge that it’ll run like a dream 99% of the time and when it does clunk out it’s always a short walk from where you’ll be spending a pleasent evening. If you’ll only end up at the hospital when it’s convenient, time to pile on the bacon! Instead of making God exert himself occasionally to cause bad things to happen, make it so you’ve getting constant effort to keep bad things from happening in return for this grace occasionally being lifted when you’re needed for important work.
And in all seriousness, this should be how they behave. “God will provide” so we don’t need to fuss about providing for ourselves. In the real world this doesn’t go very well, but how better to underline this world is magic?
(It could also imply that the techbane effect is actually God hating wizards, which is hilarious too.)
True, the issue comes from their habit of adapting mythology of other religions they like, often changing meaning and throwing away what they don’t like, which runs into appropriation problems.
Still massively better than, say, Rapture crowd, and it makes sense for a Christian in a fantasy kitchen sink setting to be one.
Greed, gluttony and sloth are presumably still sins, so I’m not sure that would work.
Well, that at least would explain the Inquisition unexpectadly being a thing that happened to actual wizards.
If God actually does hate them and helps the fight against them, that at least makes the scenario of wizards hiding somewhat plausible.
Greed, gluttony and sloth are presumably still sins, so I’m not sure that would work.
Sins apply to worldly things! If you know God will make your car run, then it’s greedy to waste time and money on a good car, or to take care of your car personally or by hiring anyone else, plus it’s like saying, “fuck you god I’m gonna make it as hard as possible for my car to break down when you want it to”, YOU MONSTER.
Now, if your rustbucket breaks down right next to a going-out-of-business sale for high-end sportscars, then okay, God says get a nicer car. But planning is sinful. My dad’s family refused to do financial planning because God would provide, and I honestly heard on Christian radio someone talking about how they stopped using a planner so much because it wasn’t leaving room for God to decide how your day went.
It kind of reminds me of the Honorverse, where the Graysons have what’s definitely the author’s ideal religion considering, which is basically a combination of everything the author likes about Christianity. And he talks about the reason why it’s such a good religion is its tolerance*! Why the *, you ask? Because the * is *:Only for Christian denominations/sects. Everyone else gets no tolerance.
Continuing our broad archetypes, when Michael comes to the door he’s wearing a T-shirt with JOHN 3:16 across his chest and god am I sick of that. I mean, if you just want to stamp HE’S A CHRISTIAN across his chest, Christians conveniently have a symbol for that very reason!
Having been raised Catholic (albeit in the UK) this really doesn’t ring true to me. Is it different in America? It feels more like what I’ve seen of obnoxious Evangelicals.
The incredibly convenient coincidences for Michael just read like God agrees with Harry about “fuck the muggles”. Michael serves God by murdering all the evil nonhumans*, so people who serve God by supporting their community just have to support this part of it a bit more.
* Have we seen any evidence he helps fight ordinary human evil? Harry doesn’t, but he doesn’t have a boss who supposedly cares about it.
God (or His angels, rather) probably wouldn’t hand out divine weapons to people He wants to risk in the fight against street crime. Also yeah God is probably just indifferent to street crime to begin with.
Having been raised Catholic (albeit in the UK) this really doesn’t ring true to me. Is it different in America? It feels more like what I’ve seen of obnoxious Evangelicals.
What part doesn’t ring true? That Catholic folk walk around with Bible-notated T-shirts? I agree. Having been raised Catholic myself, I know we have much better ways to show we’re Christian. We have these cool beaded necklaces with crosses on the end, or gold chains with crosses on the end, or tattoos of crosses.
Now, showing Catholicism specifically is a bit harder. The rosary seems to be a stronger indicator than just a cross, for reasons that escape me at the moment. I think most Protestant sects dropped them?
Now, showing Catholicism specifically is a bit harder. The rosary seems to be a stronger indicator than just a cross, for reasons that escape me at the moment. I think most Protestant sects dropped them?
The rosary is associated with the Catholic’s method of prayer and the virgin Mary. It was probably one of the first things that the Protestants dropped when Protestantism was invented.
Ah. That figures. I suppose many Protestants dropped the trappings of Catholicism to further distance themselves. Makes sense.
Sucks for them, though. Red wine, rosaries, and Nilla Wafers? They are missing out.
Protestants can go to the store and buy Nilla Wafers and red wine. I don’t get why Christains get worked up over small differences.
I had a Protestant explain that they did their thing with certain food and drink. I expalined to him that Mormons did their thing with different food and drink. He reacted as if it was human sacrifice.
Fun fact: at one point, Russian Orthodox Church decided to renew certain rituals used in religious practices, in particular codifying how many fingers you’re supposed to use when making a cross sign (three, as opposed to two that were popular among people back then).
Many people didn’t like that, refused to change how they did things and started calling themselves old ritualists (the translation is not precise. Old tenetants? Old riters?).
That led to one of the most bloody religious schisms in Russian history since the establishment of Christianity as an official religion.
A lot of old ritualists were executed, the rest went into hiding, with some establishing hidden villages in Siberia. Some of them managed to survive to this day with little to no contact with the outside world, becoming more like cults and occasionally kidnapping and indoctrinating travelers into their communities.
Coming from me, it’s a joke. But yes, some folks do take it very seriously.
That sounds a lot like kakure kirishitans. Some of them refused to rejoin the catholic church after the end of the ban during the Meiji period because their beliefs had become so different in the nearly 300 years since it was banned.
Though, your reference to Russia combined with this makes me wonder: What effect did nearly a century of communism have on Russian religion? Communism isn’t exactly known for being accepting of religion in the West.
Ooh, I’m not the best person to ask as I hang out in circles where religion is hard to find and usually don’t specifically look for religious stuff.
As general observations go, I’d say there is a lot of lukewarm religious families who, like, believe in some form of God and have a few icons at home but don’t do stuff like going to church or reading the Bible. People generally don’t bring up religion in casual conversation or display their faith with anything but crucifixes worn under clothes.
Atheism also seem more prevalent than in America, from what I’ve seen, though that could be a bias on my part. There are still more religious people overall, but people generally don’t assume you’re religious.
That said, the church is still going strong and has a lot of official and unofficial influence since it’s in favor with the current government.
Well, considering the usual guy I talk about Russian topics with is The World’s Most Finnish Man, you can’t be the worst person to ask about it. When you’re not eating babies, that is.
Dropping the trappings of the Catholic Church was, like, one of the primary reasons why Protestantism emerged. They thought the Catholic Church’s massive oppulence and unique rituals (like the veneration of saintly corpses) were downright un-Christian. The biggest divide between protestantism and catholicism is probably that protestants believed that a christian’s relationship was a personal one with god, and catholicism believed that your relationship had to go through the church.
That’s probably why it’s always the catholic church that gets featured in anime. They’ve got the massive centralized power structure with a single unified head and a ton of neato rituals and rites.
Think about how many explicit protestants you can think of in anime besides Hellsing (which was Anglican, a form of protestantism with a centralized power structure created via a temporal dispute with the church and not a religious one… involved in a very temporal dispute with the Catholic church).
Now, showing Catholicism specifically is a bit harder.
A full-blown crucifix instead of a bare cross, maybe?
That is also be a solid idea, and slightly more intimidating than a rosary.
Now I’m just imagining Michael with a giant super insanely intricate crucifix tattooed from collarbone to naval, straight across his chest.
That’d be pretty much the only less subtle way to advertise your Christianity than a John 3:16 shirt. But it’d also require Harry to stare at another man’s naked chest to see it and Harry isn’t like that. He might stare at the giant perfect breasts of Kim(‘s corpse), but a dude’s chest? Ew, c’mon, gross.
Someday, someone will bring back the DQAU!Harry we wrote back in Storm Front, who had absolutely no problem staring at a man’s chest.
Sorry to disappoint you, but that’s about the best I can do as far as that subject goes.
You can also tattoo a cross on your face, with one line across your eyes and another down your nose.
Now I’m just imagining Michael with a giant super insanely intricate crucifix tattooed from collarbone to naval, straight across his chest.
Though you can only get so much religious tatoos without looking like a Russian mafioso:
(Yes, that’s Aragorn)
Hey! It’s an old and proud tradition in Russian prisons!
By the way, the church tattoo signifies that he was sent to prison three time (the number of church domes). The crucifix means he’s a big authority.
Can’t get a good look at lower tattoos. Is it Virgin Mary on the right? If yes, that means he was a criminal from a young age.
Death to the left doesn’t seem to mean anything, it’s just a tattoo.
Can’t read words there, either. They may or may not mean anything.
Not so much street crime as the modern equivalent of beating up moneychangers and out-arguing asshole Pharisees. What does Michael do for the poor and oppressed?
To be fair, Michael seems like a little bit of an obnoxious evangelical sometimes. The dude is literally introduced to us while he’s trying to force his religious beliefs on Harry’s sinful relationship.
Having been raised Catholic (albeit in the UK) this really doesn’t ring true to me. Is it different in America? It feel’s more like what I’ve seen of obnoxious Evangelicals.
Despite Christianity dancing around a millimeter away chanting “I’m not touching youuuuuuu!” with the anti-establishment clause in America, most people don’t know how different sects work. This is totally evangelicals with stained glass and ancient relics.
Have we seen any evidence he helps fight ordinary human evil?
In fairness that’s quite theologically supported – ordinary human misery is a part of our fallen state and/or necessary for free will to exist, but if the devil pokes his head over, it gets kicked in. On the other hand, it doesn’t seem too compatible with the perks system we see God engaging in. Stuff just happening to go right for Christians, in the hands-off system, is supposed to be that willingly follow God’s plan for you makes things go properly, not God actively doing things.
And how do they know this is Father Forthill? That they know he was sent by God and isn’t the Nightmare feels rather direct line to the author. Especially when they’d managed to remember that Harry might not be Harry.
The whole thing with the retail clerk is just bizarre, since both Dresden and Michael act in ways that – in the real world – would probably make most retail clerks less likely to tell them the truth. (And a hell of a lot more likely to contemplate calling the cops.)
(Also, what kind of store has just a clerk and no one else – employee or customer – in it at, what 9 o’clock at night? )
I don’t think the nightmare is capable of shapeshifting out of its Harry shape. And, besides, the nightmare had already taken the form of Harry Dresden. Why would it then want to adopt a non-Harry persona?
Ah, yes, it’s already picked the most awesome form imaginable. Silly me!