Last time on Mockingjay, Katniss rescues the most annoying characters so they’ll be there to annoy me in the rest of the book, throws away half of the animals she hunts to rot after saying no one in 12 is wasteful, 13 thinks tributes are collaborators and her request for the moon turns out to come with the condition she only gets it if she doesn’t fuck up the whole mockingjay thing.
Another force to contend with. Another power player who has decided to use me as a piece in her games, although things never seem to go according to plan. First there were the Gamemakers, making me their star and then scrambling to recover from that handful of poisonous berries. Then President Snow, trying to use me to put out the flames of rebellion, only to have my every move become inflammatory. Next, the rebels ensnaring me in the metal claw that lifted me from the arena, designating me to be their Mockingjay, and then having to recover from the shock that I might not want the wings. And now Coin, with her fistful of precious nukes and her well-oiled machine of a district, finding it’s even harder to groom a Mockingjay than to catch one. But she has been the quickest to determine that I have an agenda of my own and am therefore not to be trusted. She has been the first to publicly brand me as a threat.
Today on diagnosing Katniss’ mental illnesses, narcissism! You may note this is not quite how things went down. The gamemakers didn’t exactly make her their star, which implies they picked her from the start. The president certainly didn’t want to use her to stop the rebellion, she just happened to be the person causing the problem in the first place. The rebels didn’t pick her either, she was already the damn mockingjay. She’s warping past events to sound as if each group picked her because she’s so awesome, instead of that one particular action of hers affected every group.
Also, this is really rich considering that a few hours before this, Katniss tried to use other people as a piece in whatever game she’s playing that involves getting the rebels to turn on each other.
And as awesome as I’m sure Coin is, Katniss, it isn’t like it was hard to figure out you had an agenda of your own when you said, “Hi, I have an agenda of my own. Let me write it down and then read it to you.” Followed by, incidentally, talking to two people trying to get them to turn against Coin, who may have either bugged the room or, my bet, was just told by those two people about how Katniss was acting because trying to get the higher ups among the rebels to fight with each other is an obvious attack on the cause itself.
Anyway, she gets made pretty yet again, because it’s the first portion of the book and the first chunk has to have the scene where she gets made pretty.
Katniss makes the usual trite statement about how it’s just like when she was a contestant and she thought that when she joined the rebellion she’d get to be herself, because clearly we’re too dumb to pick up on the whole BUT REALLY THEY ARE THE SAME thing unless it’s repeated again. Also, it’s stupid she’s complaining about this when she’s always fine about the outfits.
I turn to find Octavia waiting with a towel. She is so altered from the woman I knew in the Capitol, stripped of the gaudy clothing, the heavy makeup, the dyes and jewelry and knickknacks she adorned her hair with.
Also, she’s so skinny her skin hangs loosely on her body, she’s covered in bruises and she has festering wounds on her arms and legs that will end up as permanent scars. But what matters is she’s not wearing all that false pretty stuff that Katniss hates so much.
It turns out Octavia had pet mice, which makes me worried what happened to them. At least her disappearance was undoubtedly noticed immediately (because they’d have been looking to see who disappeared along with Katniss) so someone would have found them then. Maybe she has family or friends to take them?
Because Katniss has no soul, she finds this repulsive. This is pitched as a district matter, but that’s bull. I have had both pet mice and mice chewing their way into food. What they do running rampant in cupboards is disgusting, not the animals themselves. And Katniss even says we consider mice vermin, unless cooked so she shouldn’t be grossed out by the physical animals. As always, Katniss is a ungodly mess of impoverished third-world girl and regular first-world girl. Impoverished third-world girl does not have pearls to clutch about how repulsive mice with their hairless tails are, while regular first-world girl doesn’t think they’re food. Katniss being confused by the basic idea of pets or the concept of keeping things around on purpose that she spends her time trying to get rid of. But repulsed, no.
Her real hair turns out to be a nice auburn.
What is with the genetics here? Was whoever was in charge of the bunkers back during the series of unspecified disasters really, really into redheads? Was there a plague where reddish pigment gave you immunity?
Then it’s time to eat. Katniss brings them with her to the dining hall.
The covert glances and quiet murmurs I usually evoke are nothing compared to the reaction brought on by the sight of my bizarre-looking prep team. The gaping mouths, the finger pointing, the exclamations.
This doesn’t make sense. They must have been eating at the dining hall instead of being fed separately, because if they were fed separately, they’d have been brought only their allotted food and couldn’t have stolen anything extra.
Also, presumably the other capitol folk eat there too, and they’re all high status, so what marks the prep team as odd should continue to be a mark of importance – if not love, then still fear enough for restraint.
bowls of grayish fish and okra stew
Fish is really healthy food, stop whining.
Katniss sits them by the 12 folk instead because apparently they’re nicer. You know, it’s very subtle but I feel almost like the book is hinting the District 13 folk are jerks in their own way, just like the people they’re fighting against. I hope we get more of these subtle, subtle hints.
Leevy, who was my neighbor back in 12, gives a cautious hello to the preps
Katniss had no such neighbor or it’d have been mentioned before now. This is why planning matters.
it’s Posy, Gale’s five-year-old sister, who helps the most. She scoots along the bench to Octavia and touches her skin with a tentative finger. “You’re green. Are you sick?”
Okay, she’s a kid, so she hasn’t had much time to see things. But. Capitol fashion should be considered normal, because it’s what’s on TV. She should have seen people looking weird all the time and already asked these questions.
They explain that no, it’s fashion.
Posy considers this and says matter-of-factly, “I think you’d be pretty in any color.”
Ugh.
This is terribly trite and it’s really less of a compliment than people seem to think, especially when said to someone whose whole job revolves around fashion. Saying someone would look fine in whatever is saying that their attempts to dress up were a waste of time.
The stew doesn’t taste bad, but there’s a certain sliminess that’s hard to get around. Like you have to swallow every bite three times before it really goes down.
Katniss has been hungry enough to eat raw pine park. And not just once but as a regular occurrence. During the winter months she also eats boiled pine bark with pig entrails.
There is absolutely no sense of perspective to these books. Everything is always worthy of complaint.
Turns out she and Gale had an argument.
he suggested I’d left Coin no choice but to counter my demand for the victors’ safety with one of her own. “Katniss, she’s running this district. She can’t do it if it seems like she’s caving in to your will.”
Gale continues to speak sanity, so I’m wondering if he’s going to die, turn out to be evil, or both.
“You mean she can’t stand any dissent, even if it’s fair,” I’d countered.
No that is not what he said, and also, demanding special treatment is by definition the opposite of fair. Making a show of how you can yank around the leader of a place is never a good idea.
Gale says that no, he means Katniss shouldn’t have tried to force her into such a bad position in the first place, and Katniss continues arguing sideways to yell about how dare he say she should have just done whatever they wanted.
Gale finally says, “You’re still angry.”
“And you’re still not sorry,” I reply.
“I still stand by what I said. Do you want me to lie about it?” he asks.
“No, I want you to rethink it and come up with the right opinion,” I tell him.
I suppose it’s only fair. Both her love interests have been controlling fucks, it’s time she got to do the same.
Katniss is not explaining why she thinks he’s wrong, just insisting she’s mad he won’t believe the “right” thing.
But then she admits that she can’t actually dictate what he thinks, and that this is actually a good thing about Gale.
I don’t really like that resolution either. We seem to be skipping over the fight because the author’s bored with it.
They’re going to meet Beetee.
Inside is the first beautiful thing I’ve seen in the District 13 compound: a replication of a meadow, filled with real trees and flowering plants, and alive with hummingbirds. Beetee sits motionless in a wheelchair at the center of the meadow, watching a spring-green bird hover in midair as it sips nectar from a large orange blossom.
Why.
I swear half the things in this book seem to just be there because she thought of something cool to describe.
They don’t have alcohol. Their food is bland and strictly rationed. They treat crumpling a piece of paper as a near criminal offense. Yet they’re running this extravagant mess?
The book does make an attempt at justifying it, saying 13 is studying hummingbird wings. It does not succeed. (No, you do not need a nature park to keep hummingbirds. In fact, it should be impossible to keep them at this density in an park, there wouldn’t be enough nectar.)
Beetee asks if Katniss can shoot a hummingbird, and she has no idea because she’s never tried.
“You could snare them maybe,” Gale says. His face takes on that distant look it wears when he’s working something out. “Take a net with a very fine mesh. Enclose an area and leave a mouth of a couple square feet. Bait the inside with nectar flowers. While they’re feeding, snap the mouth shut. They’d fly away from the noise but only encounter the far side of the net.”
“Would that work?” asks Beetee.
“I don’t know. Just an idea,” says Gale. “They might outsmart it.”
“They might. But you’re playing on their natural instincts to flee danger. Thinking like your prey…that’s where you find their vulnerabilities,” says Beetee.
Hello forced conversation topic. I’m sure you’re full of deep meaning and metaphors and shit, but there is actually no reason for this entire sequence and dear god does it show. It’s just there so Katniss can think about the games and the whole childmurder thing, and then Suddenly, I want to leave the hummingbird room before somebody starts setting up a snare.
They go off to get Katniss’ present. Beetee asks after Finnick, and Katniss tries to avoid saying he’s broken in the head. Beetee cracks her clever code of “…………um, concentration problems >_> yes that’s it a few concentration problems” so she might as well have just been honest.
If you knew what Finnick’s been through the last few years, you’d know how remarkable it is he’s still with us at all.
If everyone already knew Finnick was holding on to sanity by a few threads, why would the doctors be blaming the electric shock and not the mental strain?
Tell him I’ve been working on a new trident for him, though, will you? Something to distract him a little.
Yeah, I’m sure handing him the weapon he used in both games will do a great job of distracting him from all that trauma.
The weapons room is heavily guarded. Not sure quite what I think of this. Obviously, it’s more showing how prepared 13 is, but the feel I got from overall is more of the “place for everything and everything in its place” sort of thing. In fact, they don’t seem to be able to deal with disobedience well – Katniss is able to avoid things by just not going to them, and she can run off wherever she wants to nap. Even the prep team was practically unguarded – literally, the guard only showed up after they arrived. The door was unlocked, the elevator brought them there without any trouble.
It would be more interesting, I think, to have 13 be well armed but not actually well defended against threats from the inside. Prior to adopting the survivors from 12, they have almost no immigrants, and it would be more practical to just keep an eye on them directly. Otherwise, people are expected to just follow the rules, and an Authorized Personal Only is seen as enough to prevent anyone unauthorized from entering.
I find the whole thing bizarre because I can’t imagine anyone raised in District 13 being a threat the government would have to guard against. Have these precautions been put in place because of the recent influx of immigrants?
As the bread thing showed, they obviously aren’t that good at adjusting based on the fact other people aren’t from their culture. The description of the security revolves around fancy machinery to scan people, which isn’t the sort of precaution you just have lying around. Upping security in response to immigrants is a matter of adding human guards, not installing DNA scanners.
Now, there’s something to be said for it being the other way around – that this place has enough of a military mindset that they watch for every point of weakness and guard against potential enemies even at times when none exist. But it doesn’t seem like that’s what’s going on either, because this is the only place we’ve seen anything like that. Otherwise, it seems people can wander where they like.
They find COMBAT BOWS because for some insane reason people with guns waste their time on making high tech bows too.
Gale is offered one as part of hanging out with Katniss in the photo shoots. He picks a super bow with a scope and everything.
“That doesn’t seem very fair to the deer,” I say.
More of things I wouldn’t expect anyone who actually hunted as a matter of it being that or starvation to say. Fair to the game animals is only something to consider when you’re hunting as a game.
Gale just says he’s not going to use it on deer. He’s not going to be using it on anyone, he was just told it’d be just there for the photo shoots.
I don’t know what to tell him about the aftermath of killing a person. About how they never leave you.
This is sort of true. Katniss has been upset by some of her kills, on occasion. Well, okay, just the one boy who killed Rue, but by her count, he and Cato were her only kills, so that’s only inconsistent in one way.
Anyway, this is yet another failed attempt by the book to sound like it’s a serious look on the subject. It’s all lip service. I’m sure as soon as Katniss actually has an arrow and a person in front of her, she’s going to want to shoot them, and I’m also sure that Katniss is going to kill people and not give a fuck in this book. I would bet she does this multiple times, in fact, and any remorse will be at random.
Then she gets her bow, which is a marvel on both practical and aesthetic terms.
There’s something else. I have to hold very still to make sure I’m not imagining it. No, the bow is alive in my hands. I press it against my cheek and feel the slight hum travel through the bones of my face. “What’s it doing?” I ask.
“Saying hello,” explains Beetee with a grin. “It heard your voice.”
what
So apparently the author wants to be writing a fantasy book with a Chosen One and her magical living weapon.
We’re told the weapon was supposed to be designed just to look pretty for the cameras, but that he decided to also make the inside super awesome in case she needed it. Because of course she can have a bow that’s designed around looks without those causing the slightest impairment to function. Also, thanks for diverting god knows how many expensive components to give her one superweapon she might never use, Beetee.
Look, bows, like swords, are not as good as guns. They will not start being a valid weapon to use in a high tech scifi story no matter how much you insist they’re really cool.
The arrows that Beetee designed are no less remarkable than the bow. Between the two, I can shoot with accuracy over one hundred yards. The variety of arrows—razor sharp, incendiary, explosive—turn the bow into a multipurpose weapon. Each one is recognizable by a distinctive colored shaft. I have the option of voice override at any time, but have no idea why I would use it. To deactivate the bow’s special properties, I need only tell it “Good night.” Then it goes to sleep until the sound of my voice wakes it again.
For the life of me, I can’t figure out what the fuck the special properties are. It’s a bow. It shoots arrows. What does voice override do? What does putting it to sleep do? Why bother putting it to sleep if it’ll just turn back on the moment she says anything to anyone?
Anyway, then it’s film time.
I sit patiently through the rest of the paint job and don my costume, which now includes a bloody bandage over the scar on my arm to indicate I’ve been in recent combat
The book’s priorities are so terribly skewed. It’s mocking its usual target, the unreality of television, and ignoring the actual issue, that this is a lie. There’s a huge difference between making someone look pretty and sticking a fake bandage on as part of telling people your actor is a real soldier injured in a fight, and the fact the book is oblivious to this is a good chunk of why the author comes off as a sanctimonious twit with her preaching.
I watch the woman on the screen. Her body seems larger in stature, more imposing than mine. Her face smudged but sexy. Her brows black and drawn in an angle of defiance. Wisps of smoke—suggesting she has either just been extinguished or is about to burst into flames—rise from her clothes. I do not know who this person is.
You can’t eat your cake and have it too.
they insist we continue. Tomorrow we’ll focus on speeches and interviews and have me pretend to be in rebel battles. Today they want just one slogan, just one line that they can work into a short propo to show to Coin
And the moral, of course, will be that it’s a failure because it’s not “authentic”, not that it’s immoral to pretend Katniss is fighting for people when she isn’t.
“People of Panem, we fight, we dare, we end our hunger for justice!”
…Okay, so I know the books aren’t subtle, but I was expecting more subtlety than that.
I can tell by the way they present it that they’ve spent months, maybe years, working it out and are really proud of it. It seems like a mouthful to me, though. And stiff. I can’t imagine actually saying it in real life—unless I was using a Capitol accent and making fun of it.
So in sum, we’re expected to believe they have unmatched skill at the visual component and absolutely none at the writing half of propaganda. That they just don’t get how obviously wrong that is, despite this kind of thing supposedly being their job.
You know what the worst part is? The worst part is why. It has to be a cool outfit or else Katniss doesn’t get to look cool, but it can’t be a good speech or else Katniss doesn’t get to be praised for how great her own words are. That’s it. It has nothing to do if it makes any sense, just like it has nothing to do with the actual ethics of pretending an actor is a real soldier.
Anyway, she says the line.
There’s dead silence on the set. It goes on. And on.
Finally, the intercom crackles and Haymitch’s acerbic laugh fills the studio. He contains himself just long enough to say, “And that, my friends, is how a revolution dies.”
Because Katniss is that special.
That’s all this is. Katniss is so special that if she doesn’t act right it’s a huge blow to the cause. Katniss is so special that only her own words can match up with her specialness. Katniss is so special that everything hinges on her.
No you just don’t understand, Farla, that bow doesn’t just shoot arrows. When activated it makes Katniss’ bare skin sparkle in the sunlight.
Also, I think you’re ignoring the obvious fact that this IS indeed a fantasy book and Katniss’ voice has hypnotic mind control abilities that have already enslaved all of Panem. Duh.
I thought that was the point of the makeup! But only the tasteful kind that just highlights her natural beauty, according to Cinna’s detailed notes.
Actually the books would make more sense as fantasy, since many inconsistencies in the social worldbuilding could be handwaved with “a religion did it” and the capital could be hogging all the mages and district people would only know limited amounts about science because it was all anyone knew.
Ah, but it fails the most crucial point – when writing a fantasy world, your people still need to react to the altered situation as people. Here, we’d need to slap extra magic on to say there’s mindwarping stuff and that’s why no one makes any sense.
I can’t believe you didn’t tear Collin’s a new one about the name Posy. I’m disappointed.
And farla, don’t you talk shit about combat bows. I saw one of those in a Rambo movie. My man Sly, he shot this dude… and he exploded! And then he shot this helicopter… and it exploded!
Two major characters are named Fulvia and Plutarch. At least Posy’s a fucking name.
Also, you appear to be implying people in Rambo movies wouldn’t be able to explode things by shooting them if they didn’t have bows in particular. And that would mean it was possible for things to not explode under some circumstances, which I’m sure we can all agree is blasphemy.
“‘Leevy, who was my neighbor back in 12, gives a cautious hello to the preps’
Katniss had no such neighbor or it’d have been mentioned before now. This is why planning matters.”
Leevy was mentioned in CF after Gale was whipped. Katniss told her to get Hazelle and not to bring/tell the kids, and Leevy offered to just watch them herself. That’s honestly the only time she’s mentioned and the only thing she does, but she was there before.
Ah, you are correct. Catching Fire did a lot better on the community front than the first book, and I guess my first impressions just haven’t faded properly.
‘I’m also sure that Katniss is going to kill people and not give a fuck in this book. I would bet she does this multiple times, in fact, and any remorse will be at random.’
…Darn it. But I didn’t get the bow either. Why make it alive? What’s that compared to a supercool bow that isn’t ‘alive’?
If the bow wasn’t alive, it couldn’t think she was awesome, and the books must revolve around everyone thinking she’s awesome.
Actually, I think that Haymitch was being hyperbolic.
Yeah, but it’s dumb anyone cares in the first place.
Since she was the person who kick started the rebellion, idealistic, uneducated rebels everywhere are going to flock to her. (And idealistic, uneducated people seem to be most of the rebels.)
No, they’re not. The rebellion has real grievances. No one should be fighting because their life is great but oh, poor Katniss they need to help her, so no one should care if Katniss is stupid or a bad actor or whatever. They’re living in oppressed poverty under a dictatorship that murders their kids for yearly entertainment. All that Katniss did was show them that the capital isn’t perfect, which means they have a chance if they fight back. And once the riots started, they got to see that for themselves and are no longer reliant on just her as the example.
Someone in Katniss’ position could certainly leverage themselves into an important role on the basis of recognition, but that’s completely different than automatically having that role and everyone relying on them to keep the rebellion going. The whole fire metaphor about sparks and catching? Once a fire gets going, the spark doesn’t matter. No fire relies on the same spark to keep spreading.
I don’t mean to say that the rebellion doesn’t have legitimate grievances; what I mean is that Katniss is the one who kick started it in the first place, and people who aren’t familiar with what actually happened imagined as as some sort of great, revolutionary leader, and look up to her for leadership.
On that basis, Coin decided to make Katniss ‘The Mockingjay’ to inspire the rebels, and because having Katniss working with them makes District 13 look good. Basically, Coin decided to milk people’s misconceptions of Katniss for what they’re worth.
So basically; people do care about what Katniss does, acts, etc., although she was not necessary for the rebellion itself.
Why wouldn’t they be familiar with it? Her entire claim to the mockingjay label is that she did it on live television before the entire country. And if you’re not familiar with what happened, you wouldn’t care. That’s the core issue. Everything precedes from the assumption people care about Katniss and this has to be taken into account, but it’s never explained why beyond because she was on TV that one time.
Coin has no reason to want to use her, and if she felt Katniss was important for some reason, a martyr is worth more and doesn’t have to be managed.
I mean, they thought that what Katniss was doing was purposeful defiance of the Capitol, rather than being tossed around like a rag doll by Haymitch. That’s what makes her important; people think she’s some revolutionary leader.
Coin can’t kill Katniss yet, because she wants Katniss to give her her support first; also, she only planned on eliminating her in the first place should Katniss throw in her lot with someone else. In addition, Coin’s callous, but like Snow, she’s not ‘wasteful’.
But it wasn’t either. It was Katniss calling the capital’s bluff, showing they aren’t in perfect control and can screw up. The stupid romance didn’t cause the rebellion, the berries did.
Katniss’s support is meaningless! There’s already rebellion! If Katniss had said LOL ACTUALLY I <3 CAPITAL DICKHEADS do you really think District 8 would have said that oh well, the capital did just murder half of them but I guess if Katniss doesn't care we don't either? Would all the survivors of 12 have shrugged and said that they don't care so about their families being burned alive because Katniss doesn't care? The only reason Coin needs Katniss' support is because the book insists everything revolves around her in the first place, but it doesn't. Even then, the rebellion is CURRENTLY HAPPENING, so if Katniss' allegiance is so damn important, apparently they all believe she's on the rebellion's side, so Coin doesn't need to gain that support. And if
they somehow do need to get more support, they could just kill her and blame the capital, since her death at the capital's hands would certainly be a great way to prove she's on their side. Katniss dies in the second games as a martyr, they win.
Katniss’ support is not essential for the rebellion! Katniss’ support is HELPFUL. She’s viewed as a heroic icon; many people idolize her (as shown in District 8) and Coin wants her to raise morale, to prevent people from being discouraged by the hardships, etc., Moreover, she wants Katniss by her side, to convince the rebels to support District 13 (and Coin herself) when the rebellion is over and they need to decide a leader.
Also, it’s not a matter of whether she’s on the rebel’s side or not; the goals of it are to raise morale, and possibly sway some of the Capitol over and to give some more legitimacy to District 13. The reason they didn’t let her die in the arena was because a) they have enough martyrs as is; they need a leader symbol and b) she had to give her support for District 13, to make the District’s more willing to accept 13’s reign once the rebellion is over.
If it isn’t essential, then why are they bothering? They have a ridiculously complex and risky plan to save her from the hunger games, which in the process gets several of their actual operatives killed or captured. Then, they blow resources fixing her up. Then they blow more resources feeding her when she refuses to even follow a schedule, then she demands a special trip to the ashes of her hometown which requires a team of specialists sweeping the area for bugs and traps and anything else and a dozen helicopters to follow her around. In the middle of a war. Oh, also they invade the capital to get her prep team out.
After all this, she then gives Coin more shit. In return, they give her all sorts of stuff including a magic bow.
All so they can have a leader symbol to usurp Coin’s actual leader role, try to convince the capital folk who they didn’t even allow to surrender during the storming of the capital, and because somehow her doing everything she can to blow Coin off and also running off to do her own heroics every five minutes will do a better job of getting Coin elected leader than the part where District 13 saved the rest of them?
She’s utterly useless and yet the entire book revolves around the idea Katniss decides everything.
She’s not essential but she is incredibly helpful. The plan was not merely to save Katniss- including Beetee who was legitimately useful for the war effort.
I’m not sure that they ‘blew resources fixing her up’; they gave her some skin grafts, and that was about it. (As to why they were doing it for her, while District 8 was suffering, I think the main problem was not that they did not have the doctors, but that they didn’t want to risk doctors staying there for an extended period of time, while the place was constantly bombed.)
They do not blow any more supplies on her than they do on any other person, and certainly not more than on any other ‘Mentally Unstable’ person.
Moreover, the visit to District 12 was authorized by Plutarch, not District 13. Plutarch is from the Capitol, so he has no idea how to operate on a limited schedule or budget, and it makes sense he would authorize something like that.
I don’t think they neccessarily invaded the Capitol to get her prep team out. Like as not, they rescued them along with Haymitch, Plutarch, etc., Even if they did, I don’t believe that a ‘get Katniss’ prep team out’ mission would require very much supplies. A small squad to convince them to go, a few communications devices, and a map of the Capitol would probably be enough.
Katniss is not meant to usurp Coin’s actual role, but to give legitimacy to Coin’s role. “Oh look! Your mockingjay is working with Coin! See how trustworthy she is?” In addition, they wanted her to serve as encouragement to the Districts; no matter how legitimate their grievances are, it can’t be exactly easy to withstand the conditions described in District 8.
Katniss’ purpose was not to make the Capitol’s people surrender when push came to shove; it was to convince them to defect or not fight before the actual invasion. Moreover, District 13 did not save the rest of them; the main battle was fought by the Districts, with 13 as an ally and supplier of aid, etc., only really coming to the forefront during the invasion of the Capitol. They ‘saved everybody’ no more than any other District did, and they were in hiding for 75 years. It makes sense that the rebels would need persuading for them to accept 13 as leader after the war.
Sorry to doublepost, but I can’t figure out how to edit, and I forgot to address ‘Katniss’ magical bow’ argument. The bow was made by Beetee. They explicitly told him to make a bow designed for propaganda (ie. a pretty- looking, cheap toy) but he went ahead and built a real bow. I get the impression that it was Plutarch who got him the resources necessary to do it, both from the way Plutarch talks about ‘Beetee’s surprise for you’ to Plutarch’s general indulgence of Katniss, and inability to understand conservation of resources.
I also forgot to mention that many of the Victors they intended to rescue were leaders of District resistance; which is another reason for the rescue.
(By the way, I’m Lili, using a different account this time. Who knew you could sign in with Facebook?)
I know that District 13 is capable of bombing; however, I think it’s very possible that the hovercraft used to watch Katniss at that particular time may have been the ‘surveillance- and- escape’ kind. Surely there isn’t a ‘one size fits all’ type?
Except the citizens in the Capitol weren’t fighting at all; they were refugees, who were fleeing. It was the Peacekeepers who were fighting. Keep in mind that they were in the middle of a battle; it’s possible they had already been given an option to surrender and refused it. It’s also possible that the attack was spontaneous; the rebels especially, but 13 as well, have suffered for 75- maybe more- years at the hands of the Capitol. It’s not exactly unheard of for a co-ordinated attack to turn into a wholesale ‘lout, murder and fight’ thing.
They rescued her and the leaders of the rebellion from the Capitol; the only ‘actual operative’ they left to be tortured was Johanna, and that was more of an accident than anything else. I believe they got her prep team out while getting Haymitch and Plutarch out; perhaps even because of Haymitch. So, no real extra cost, if they’re doing it in the same mission. The ‘running around playing soldier for the cameras’ was explicitly for the propaganda effort; not for Katniss.
It’s true that District 13 did ‘fairly well considering’ but the other Districts are not going to see them as some shiny superhero, especially when they sat out so much of the fighting. Hence why Katniss has to give Coin her support.
Yes, but we have no actual indication that Plutarch was actually ‘flipping of the government’. Surely it’s not unheard of for officials to set aside special resources for something, even without the express approval of the President?
Do you mean the non- amnesty? I don’t think that was murder; Coin said that, if they committed any crime, under torture or no, they would be tried for it. It seems generally in keeping with District 13. They’ve been on the edge of disaster for so long; any betrayal to the Capitol- however minor, could be disastrous.
I know that District 13 is capable of bombing; however, I think it’s
very possible that the hovercraft used to watch Katniss at that
particular time may have been the ‘surveillance- and- escape’ kind.
Surely there isn’t a ‘one size fits all’ type?
There is absolutely no distinction given, and why on earth would they need a dozen different ones that could only be used to evacuate and not defend her? I’m specifically talking about what the did and failed to do. There is none of what you’re saying in the book. In the book, there is no justification for how rescues are effortless and how the peacekeepers fighting them, who aren’t even at the capital, are somehow the target of their constant attempts to broadcast Katniss looking artfully mussed onto capital TVs or how somehow it isn’t any more effort to steal people out of multiple highly guarded locations than having two people in the capital escape. If you want to try to fanwank explanations, that’s great but it’s not what I’m talking about here.
Surely it’s not unheard of for officials to set aside special resources
for something, even without the express approval of the President?
You are talking about giving an actor who hates the president a real gun instead of a fake one, and also blowing your R&D guys’ time on inventing an brand new super awesome gun just for her. Yes. Yes it is. Especially when you’re whiplashing between 13 being insane hardasses who can tolerate no dissent to this particular capital guy who’s constantly complaining he doesn’t like how Coin runs things and it was so much more awesome in the capital can do whatever the fuck he wants.
I’m inferring that there are different types of aircraft in the book, based on the fact that a) it’s post apocalyptic earth and b) there are different types of aircraft on earth. I did not theorize that they needed a dozen different types of aircraft to defend her. I theorized that the type of aircraft used to watch her might be different from the type of aircraft necessary to defend a District.
First of all, they did not know that she any more than disliked the president. Until her assassination of Coin, no one knew that she hated Coin that much- and she didn’t, until Prim died. Moreover, she does not have it all the time.
The R&D guy did it in his spare time. I don’t think there was any question of whether he could do it or not; merely if he had the resources to do it.
You’re getting really confusing with the replies. Respond at the end of the chain, not the top.
We have different types of aircraft which we have different words for. If there’s a distinction, people would normally use different words.
First of all, they did not know that she any more than disliked the president.
She loathes the woman. She refuses to do anything she’s asked, turns everything she can into a power struggle, disobeys every chance she can. She’s such a problem Coin does a similarly ridiculous series of things to try to get rid of her.
The R&D guy did it in his spare time. I don’t think there was any
question of whether he could do it or not; merely if he had the
resources to do it.
In the middle of an active on the side of a desperately strapped for resources rebellion, he has the time to invent a magic bow and grab any supplies he wants to do that? And it’s not like he could possibly have made the whole thing from scratch, so he must have gotten the components from either an existing stockpile or made someone else use their time for it.
All of this he did against orders if we’re assuming Coin said to just give her something shiny, because doing it in his spare time doesn’t make giving her something she wasn’t supposed to have any better.
Sorry if I post in the wrong place. First of all, the books are from Katniss’ point of view. She would probably see the aircraft as aircraft, not ___192 or something.
She refuses to do anything anyone asks. Her flagrant acts of disrespect are towards everyone. The characters have no reason to suspect she especially dislikes Coin.
First of all, I already told you that I believed the resources came from Plutarch, who, as a high up, has the authority to do such a thing. And as you yourself said, it’s more than possible that he made use of existing weaponry.
Second of all, is the so- called magic bow really that complicated? We know that it activates via recognition- something we’ve seen fairly often in District 13.
‘Razor- sharp’ arrows- not very hard. Incendiary could probably be achieved by putting some flammable substance in them. The only real difficulty I see is the explosive.
But we have different words for planes and helicopters (and military helicopters for the big, tough ones and spyplanes for the light fast ones and fighter jets and passenger planes and…) They have a single word for everything. If there was meant to be a distinction, the book should have given one.
First of all, I already told you that I believed the resources came from
Plutarch, who, as a high up, has the authority to do such a thing.
Except there is no reason he would have this sort of authority, given he’s a recent defector from their enemy. He might have the clearance initially to okay it, but he would not be keeping that long when Coin found out.
And as you yourself said, it’s more than possible that he made use of existing weaponry.
Oh no, definitely not. He may have used existing parts, but no one uses bows in modern warfare, so he had to invent the whole thing.
Second of all, is the so- called magic bow really that complicated? We
know that it activates via recognition- something we’ve seen fairly
often in District 13.
And activating does…? That’s why I’m calling it a magic bow. Bows are things that store force when you bend them and then concentrate that force in the arrow when they’re released. Whatever thing he rigged up for her is apparently ridiculously more complicated than that while still looking like an ordinary bow. It’s also made out of completely different materials, which at the least means he must have done extensive testing to figure out which ones worked for it. This in a place that can’t spare an extra slice of bread, currently desperately at war, without even the manpower to spare elsewhere to throw the dead into mass graves.
In this world, he invented a magic bow for her so she could shoot inspiring videos.
but that they didn’t want to risk doctors staying there for an extended period of time, while the place was constantly bombed.
That wouldn’t be such an issue if, say, her dozen hovercraft escort because she wanted to play in the ashes of 12 had been deployed there instead, now would it?
As to everything else, your argument seems to boil down to it being super easy to do those things, in which case they aren’t having any resource crunch, in which case they, again, don’t need her. If you can go in and kidnap three people from the capital on a whim, you can send a strike team in and blow up half of the place.
Katniss’ purpose was not to make the Capitol’s people surrender when
push came to shove; it was to convince them to defect or not fight
before the actual invasion.
Except they had no opportunity to defect, most of them were unarmed so they were never going to fight, and when 13 marched in they just shot everything that moved anyway.
The fact in a theoretical universe PR is a factor doesn’t change that Katniss was useless at PR for anything that happened here.
Moreover, District 13 did not save the rest of them; the main battle was
fought by the Districts, with 13 as an ally and supplier of aid
Yes, 13 did. 13 was the only one with resources like hovercraft and guns and medicine and food. District 8’s uprising was with rocks, and it was crushed under the capital’s heel without a problem. 13 saved everyone, the book then says they didn’t because all the book cares about is insisting Katniss is important rather than anything that makes sense.
And regarding Plutarch, yeah, the fact he gets to call the shots when supposedly Coin’s in charge, and the general way everyone completely ignores her and she has no power is another problem with the story. You’re basically saying one thing isn’t a plot hole because there’s this other plot hole that talks about it. The plot is rotten through. None of this makes sense.
I also forgot to mention that many of the Victors they intended to
rescue were leaders of District resistance; which is another reason for
the rescue.
Speaking of such plotholes, also they were planning to murder all the victors out of hand.
I thought that the hovercraft they had were for surveillance and quick escapes; not for actual fighting.
They are having a ‘resource crunch’; however, a) they don’t need her for that reason (but to inspire the rebels) and b) the things in question (minus the bow) don’t cause a lot of resources in the first place.
Aside from District 2 (which defected halfway) the Capitol’s own citizens are the main part of it’s fighting force. They’re trying to make the Capitol citizens unwilling to enlist or be conscripted; and to convince the ones that are fighting to stop. In essence, they are using her to demoralize the enemy.
District 13 provided some of the resources, yes, but if standards in 8 are anything to judge by, they were doing a heck of a bad job at it. What I mean is, the rebels are probably not going to view District 13 as having saved the day when they sat out most of the fighting. Certainly they are not going to willing give up the reins of power to them. Also, the rebellion in District 8 was not ‘easily crushed’. They were still fighting; fighting in horrible standards, yes, but they were still fighting.
Coin does have a lot of power, but she’s working on a grand, win- the- war and manage District 13 level, that makes her power less obvious. Also, it’s not at all contradictory that a delegated leader (ie. Plutarch) would call the shots on a daily basis; just like how the average citizen isn’t as concerned about ‘will Harper let me do this’ as ‘will (insert mayor) allow this’.
However, I am convinced that there was a bit of a behind- the- scenes thing going on with the manufacturing of the bow and trident, as sort of power struggle, if you will. But that’s just me.
By the way, who was planning on killing the Victors? District 13 or the Capitol?
In the books, the hovercraft are used for bombing. 13 very explicitly is still capable of bombing. They also appear to be the main defense against other hovercraft, which means the main way of stopping the other side from bombing you. The capital’s attack with hovercraft involved fewer hovercraft than 13 sent on Katniss’ stupid side trip into ashy nowhere.
b) the things in question (minus the bow) don’t cause a lot of resources in the first place.
They rescue her from the games, remember? Losing actual operatives in the process to be tortured by the capital. They then have to bend over backward trying to keep her happy, and seriously, getting her prep team is a ridiculous resource investment in itself. Let’s not get into how much time and energy was spent running around playing soldier for the cameras.
This for people who apparently find even feeding their own people a struggle.
They’re trying to make the Capitol citizens unwilling to enlist or be
conscripted; and to convince the ones that are fighting to stop. In
essence, they are using her to demoralize the enemy.
They were trying to use Katniss to get people on their side. Terrorizing the capital is a very different thing. And if you want people to stop fighting, the easy way of doing it is making it clear you’ll accept their surrender, as opposed to their current plan of indiscriminate murder.
But even if that were so, the amount of energy expended on her is far more than the amount of energy they’d be saving in theoretical demoralizing.
District 13 provided some of the resources, yes, but if standards in 8
are anything to judge by, they were doing a heck of a bad job at it
One critically undermanned district trying to supply another eleven that are all vastly larger than it is? They did amazingly well. We don’t know how many people lived in 13, but we know they had so few people they were struggling to even keep a functional gene pool and not die out entirely, something even 12, tiniest of the districts, had no problem with. And they had to do this while feeding and housing a huge influx of starved, badly injured refugees.
Also, it’s not at all contradictory that a delegated leader (ie.
Plutarch) would call the shots on a daily basis; just like how the
average citizen isn’t as concerned about ‘will Harper let me do this’ as
‘will (insert mayor) allow this’.
How often does a mayor flip him off and then do exactly the opposite of what the government said to do? Now, how often does a non-elected government official appointed directly by Harper do that? Okay, now how often does one of those who also was a member of the enemy you’re currently at war with and was previously involved in murdering children for entertainment do it? And now how often does that all happen if also, your government is an incredibly regimented military force that chains people up and beats them for stealing a slice of bread?
By the way, who was planning on killing the Victors? District 13 or the Capitol?
District 13, for some reason, so that Katniss could be all defiant and make not doing that one of her various demands, further underlining that she was really not worth the effort they were putting in just for a couple TV spots.