The Other Pokeauthors, Part 111

Some dialogue wankery! It’s been a long time since we’ve seen that. The other respondents were polite, however.

your review
28 MayTyrantTympole
Thank you for the constructive criticism!! You are one of the first people you has actually given me ‘constructive’ criticism. For most people it’s either they love the book or they give it flames.

I’ll go back through the chapter and change a few things, because after thinking about it I think it would change the story for the better.

Your review on my story
May 28Dralic0rn
A response to your review at https://www.fanfiction.net/r/12949177/

Hi, just looking over your review and thought I’d go through it with you. Not trying to flame you or troll you or anything, just respond to your attempt to help me with some help of my own.

[“What if the characters you like were completely different characters with zero connection to their canon counterparts” is not a great premise for a story. If you want to write about college slice-of-life, just write about humans. If you want to work with gods-as-humans specifically, use gods that actually make sense for that, such as the Greek pantheon.]

True, I’ll agree with your point there. However, this is fan fiction. I’m not making money off of this nor am I working for the Pokémon company and thus I have no obligations to connect my imagined world with the franchise. True slapping pokémon names over my own OC’s isn’t very a good idea but that’s the joys of writing fan fiction. No-one cares except those who seem to think that everyone has to act how an actual author would. I’m sure you’ve seen some truly abysmal stories out there written by thirteen year olds who are just beginning their foray into writing and thought “My God, this is awful.” We’re meant to be a supportive community and whilst yes support has to be tough love sometimes through constructive criticism you have to be careful with what you say. Looking at your profile tells me you’ve done a lot of reviews and never tell anyone anything good about their work. I wonder how many dreams you’ve ruined by telling people their work is awful and brushing it off as constructive criticism. Also, if we’re going to talk terrible premises, taking someone else’s universe and writing your own spin on it is not a good premise either according to your standards and yet…

[You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, so you shouldn’t capitalize words like pokemon or pikachu or charizard. The only time you should capitalize it is if you’re using it as the pokemon’s name, ie, Ash’s pikachu is called Pikachu. This is because you only capitalize when it’s a proper noun, which are the names of places or things. Similar reasoning should be applied to any other words you’re thinking of capitalizing, like trainer or professor or gym.]

Firstly, Pokémon is the name of a franchise, a thing that should be capitalised. Secondly, this point is rendered moot on my work as I am using the Pokémon’s names as their actual names. Do everyone you review a favour and don’t copy and paste points you’ve made in other reviews for someone else’s. I’ve made it clear that this doesn’t take place in the Pokémon Universe so why would I be using the words gym, trainer or professor? Plus, those three words can be used in a name such as ‘Saffron City Gym, Professor Oak, Trainer Red’ They would look wrong if we used the lowercase letters ‘Saffron City gym, professor Oak, trainer Red’.

[You’re formatting dialogue incorrectly.]

Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce the Grammar Nazi.

Oh boy, I would love to explain all of this in detail but there’s a character limit. I’ll just say this. No-one except the Grammar police and reception/kindergarten teachers care about one’s spelling and grammar unless it is genuinely unintelligible. I was taught that this is how you should write and that’s how I shall write whether or not someone else thinks I am wrong. If I am wrong then oh well. Doesn’t matter though, it’s my style and thus it will stay. You wouldn’t criticise an artist for drawing his or her interpretation of something and using paint instead of coloured pencil thus you shouldn’t do the same for an author. Also, just because I can, we invented the language until America created it’s own form of it and made the world think it was their language.

{Dialogue is written as [“Hello,” she said] or [“Hello!” she said], never [“Hello.” She said]}

I have never seen anyone write dialogue in the same way you do. Please inform me which state you reside in so I can look up their grammar rules and write in that way. Thought you Americans loved your freedom.

[“Speak” is also not a speech verb.]

This is just idiocy. Speak – say something in order to convey information or to express a feeling. It is a speech verb as it is an action to do with talking.

[And yeah, this has nothing to do with Pokemon. Slapping pokemon names over your OCs does not make them Pokemon characters.]

You’ve already made this point, if you’re going to write a review at least come up with a good conclusion friend.

In conclusion, I believe you have given me a very nit-picky review in the style that most trolls and flamers in the Grammar Police would use with no praise or good points whatsoever. I know your personal beliefs are to not “praise sandwich” (which is considered to be polite) but you should at least have two defined positives and negatives sections so as to make sure people do not believe you are a troll or flamer. I have already received messages off other members of the community warning me about you amongst others but I believe in fair treatment thus you will find this review of your review is remarkably similar to your review (Hm, that’d be a meme “You dawg I heard you like reviews so I did a review of your review in the style of your review to review.”) Thank you for your review and know that I do agree with one of your points. This isn’t just flaming you or getting upset over it. Just pointing out some flaws as I believe that making sure your reviews are good can really improve them.

Many thanks for your help and I hope you’re intelligent enough to understand my points,
Dral

May 28[I have never seen anyone write dialogue in the same way you do.]

Go to your local library and open literally any novel. If that’s too much effort for you, Google it and you will find every grammar resource backs me up.

Grammar does matter. Its purpose is to enable clear and consistent communication. Inconsistent dialogue formatting does make writing confusing and unclear. Forcing your readers to constantly puzzle out what you were trying to say in a given sentence is extremely inconsiderate.

[True slapping pokémon names over my own OC’s isn’t very a good idea but that’s the joys of writing fan fiction.]

No. The joy of fanfiction is reading and writing stories about the characters and settings we know. Taking the canon characters and transplanting them to a new setting is fine. Killing those characters to make new characters wearing their faces is manipulative and a waste of our time. Once again, I ask you: Why did you want to write your college slice-of-life story about these characters specifically? What can you do with this story that you can’t do by writing original fiction and original characters?

[but you should at least have two defined positives and negatives sections so as to make sure people do not believe you are a troll or flamer]

Why? I don’t owe you anything. Not everyone is going to like your story. If you don’t like that, don’t post on a public website where anyone can express an opinion on your story.

Capitalization arguments go here: https://www.fanfiction.net/topic/11834/55376155/1/Capitalization-Thread

May 28[Go to your local library and open literally any novel]

Done. Opened several books, all of them had the same way of writing. Some had the comma you use instead of the full stop I use but none wrote in the way you or I write so I guess we’re both wrong eh?

[Grammar does matter.]

Spoken like a true Grammar Policeman. This is fan fiction friend, no-one is going to write ‘professionally’ here unless they already do. I don’t know what you were expecting on a website full of teenagers trying to sort out their feelings, lives, urges and social interaction by writing about them but ground-breaking, best-selling novels with immaculate spelling, grammar and punctuation are not amongst the things I would be expecting. You say “But we’re trying to help improve your writing.” No you’re not. You’re pointing out flaws made by people who are probably still in school and get enough flak off their teachers for all this. They don’t need someone telling them they’re wrong in what might possibly be their safe space where they can vent etc.

[The joy of fanfiction is reading and writing stories about the characters and settings we know]

I have to disagree with you there. As I stated before a lot of these writers are teenagers trying to make sense of themselves during puberty which I’m sure you’ll remember as a difficult time if you’re not still going through it. The joy of reading fan fiction you’ve got right, but he joy of writing it is different. Maybe I should have made that clearer in my response, I don’t know, but surely you understand this? Plus, name five legendary pokémon that has a personality that isn’t “evil and wants to destroy stuff”, “makes friends with the protagonist and is generally fun-loving” or “angsty with a dark past eventually getting redeemed”. I haven’t found any other legendaries like that so please point me in the direction of legendaries with actual personalities.

[Why did you want to write your college slice-of-life story about these characters specifically? What can you do with this story that you can’t do by writing original fiction and original characters?]

Does this matter? I admitted that it was not a particularly good idea. So since you seem to be so obsessed with this whole “Yeah, but why?” question I’ll just say this; If you don’t like it, don’t read it. I never asked for your review, you took time out of your own day to review a story with nothing but negativity which leads me onto my next point.

[Why? I don’t owe you anything. Not everyone is going to like your story. If you don’t like that, don’t post on a public website where anyone can express an opinion on your story.]

It’s not about owing anyone anything. It’s about appearing friendly, polite and, most importantly, not appearing to be a troll or a flamer. After having done some data mining on you I can deduce you’re not a troll. Just very very very blunt and energy efficient. I can also deduce that you have few friends that think differently to you and the majority, if not all, of your friends think the same as you do meaning you have a very closed-mind about this. It’s not good for here and it’s not good for the real world.

[Capitalization arguments go here: https://www.fanfiction.net/topic/11834/55376155/1/Capitalization-Thread]

I have already gone through this thread whilst doing my data mining. Like I said, I have used the names of the Pokémon as the names of the people representing them thus they should be capitalised.
A quote from someone named QTK on the thread – “‘Hey Ash, look at all those pikachu running around. They look just like Pikachu.’ – Correct.”
Therefore I am correct in this sense according to your own thread.

May 28[in what might possibly be their safe space]

A public website can never be a safe space. If you want a safe space, you have options for that — closed, personal blogs, or websites without comments. Go there if that’s what you want.

[Some had the comma you use instead of the full stop I use but none wrote in the way you or I write so I guess we’re both wrong eh?]

Or if you want to talk instead… Citation needed. Quote a passage and point out how it proves I’m wrong.

[Like I said, I have used the names of the Pokémon as the names of the people representing them thus they should be capitalised.]

“A humanised set of legendary Pokémon”

May 28[A public website can never be a safe space.]

Oh really? You sure about that? Cause I know people who do. Look at youtube, there are people on there who use the website as a safe space. The reason you think it isn’t is because of you and people like you who send solely negative reviews trash talking people. You know this because you get a lot of hate for it right?

[citation need.]

Is this Wikipedia? No it isn’t. Instead I’ll tell you what you told me “go down to the library and read any book there if you can be bothered”

Lastly, what is your point fir the last one? That since they are legendary pokemon as humans I shouldn’t capitalise because the species isn’t? Sounds a bit stupid to me. The species name is the name of the person representing the species. I’m not going to say “Oh this is a human representation of latias called Carol” now am I?

May 28This is a public website with a public comment feature where people can say, potentially, anything in response to anyone. That is the opposite of a safe space, and that is by design. Not everything can be a safe space. It’s on you to understand your own needs and find environments that suit them instead of insisting that everything must suit your needs and no one else’s. Once again, I’m not saying you can’t write fanfic. I’m saying that if you don’t want critical comments, you need to post it somewhere that doesn’t have critical comments as a built-in feature of the site.

[Is this Wikipedia? No it isn’t.]

…Do you seriously think Wikipedia is the only place where citations are used? Evidence is required for any logical argument. You said you found specific passages that disprove my model. I need to see exactly what you saw so I can review that evidence for myself.

“A humanised set of legendary Pokémon”
^ “Pokemon” is capitalized here, in the general form. It doesn’t make sense to capitalize it here, for the same reasons you don’t capitalize “animal”.

May 28I’m bored of you now, you only accept your personal viewpoints as fact whether or not they are right. People like you are one of the reasons the internet sucks. You’ll counter this with I don’t care about your opinion which is hypocritical sa you spread your own opinion through reviews. You’ll counter this with I’m only trying to help people improve their writing, it’s up to them to accept my help or not further enforcing the view that you believe your way is the only right way and it’ll start to loop from there on out. Try to troll more efficiently and if you want to start a debate about how you are a troll I’m down for it but only if you please try to be entertaining whilst you do it. Flame wars (Yes this is a flame war, yes, you started it. Don’t deny it) can get rather boring if they go on too long or the other person becomes boring.

May 29No, I’m trying to argue through evidence and reason. You are the one who’s assuming you’re right with no justification. Seriously, where is this passage that totally disproves me? Why is it so hard for you to prove how wrong I am? Were you lying, did you just make that up to win the argument when you actually have nothing?

But hey, fun fact! If you want me to change, I do accept evidence-based argument on that as well! If you write your own reviews for the category and show me that you get better responses, I will consider adopting your suggestions. I will even stop reviewing for the duration!

May 30I would like to know your decision on this. If you’d like to review, pick a date so we can coordinate.
May 31I have decided I am going to rewrite my story and have the legendary Pokémon as gods on earth kind of thing. I do not wish to review any stories unless I wish to impart some positivity into someone’s life. I refuse to bring people down when they’ve put effort into their work. If not reviewing someone means they don’t get better then so what? People get better over time anyway. I’m not going to be some immature arsehole who complains about the quality of some 13 year old’s fanfiction online.
May 31Also, I doubt it would be too hard to get better responses than you. It may be hard for you to do but by pointing out a few positives alongside their negatives instead of going full critic mode actually makes you seem like less of a dick believe it or not. If you seem like less of a dick then people are more likely to take your advice. Who are you more likely to listen to? Someone like me who’s been arguing with you about your methods or someone who pointed out flaws in your work but still praised you for a good job (which you’re not doing btw)

May 31[Also, I doubt it would be too hard to get better responses than you. It may be hard for you to do but by pointing out a few positives alongside their negatives instead of going full critic mode actually makes you seem like less of a dick believe it or not.]

If it’s so easy, then do it and shield them from my wrath. Otherwise, admit you don’t actually care about these poor authors I’m tormenting.

May 31[If it’s so easy, then do it and shield them from my wrath.]

Why are you so insistent I start reviewing? Do you believe that once I start I’ll convert to your way of thinking? No, I’m not going to start reviewing like I stated in my response beforehand.

[Otherwise, admit you don’t actually care about these poor authors I’m tormenting]
1) so you do admit you’re doing it out of malice?
2) I don’t particularly care about these people no. But what you’re doing is just downright mean. Who abused you in your childhood? I’m acting out of sympathy not because I care about these people. Plus you’ve annoyed me

May 31As I’ve repeatedly stated, I think multiple reviewers of any perspective will lead to a healthier review culture. I don’t care if you’re “converted” or not. Your reviews don’t have to be anything like mine. Just review. The category needs it. Look at the front page, see how few stories have reviews at all.

[so you do admit you’re doing it out of malice?]

LOL no, but the truth seems secondary to whatever supervillain fantasy you’ve built up for me. It shouldn’t matter whether I’m really evil or not — you believe I am, and in that case you should want to stop me. This is the easiest way to do that.

re: Your review to Legend Lucario
29 MayArkinstone
A response to your review at https://www.fanfiction.net/r/12947951/

Hi! thank you for your criticism and I will take it into account! and though on some points you do have valid points, I do have my own style of writing and its probably not for everyone.

I like to capitalize names, places and people as I find it highlight that its not just a empty thing but has meaning. Such as [She went to the gym] to [She went to the Gym] and by capitalizing the G, for me at least, shows that its not just a regular Gym but a place that has background on it and particular meaning to the story or character.

And though Arceus is not specifically mentioned as god in canon, it is heavily implied and Pokemon seem to treat as such, even if it is not a god. But it is a interesting concept to play with and I can imagine that though Arceus is NOT god in the universe, the Pokemon might believe it to be so, and since this is from a Pokemon’s view I think its probably suitable.

Again, I do want to thank you for reviewing! and thanks for the link, though knowing me I’m probably going to procrastinate until I forgot XD

secs ago[And though Arceus is not specifically mentioned as god in canon, it is heavily implied and Pokemon seem to treat as such]

I don’t recall this. Can you elaborate?

7h agoI would have to look through the episodes to find direct relations, but overall from the anime at least, legendarily are regarded with awe and as extremely powerful, with Arceus being the most powerful and rarest of them all. Also, lore that I have heard of also adds to the notion that Arceus is a god, such as the history that it was Arceus who created the world.

But do keep in mind, i have not seen that episode or read the exact history for a bit, but either way, in Pokemon eyes Arceus is viewed as a god for at the very least, its sheer power and rarity.

secs agoOh, sorry, I haven’t seen the anime. I go off the games, where Arceus is never mentioned.

6 Comments

  1. JackPK says:
    Good to see mostly positive responses, although I think the point where the second exchange hit “yeah I saw examples that disprove you, but no I won’t show them to you” is probably where it should have become evident that you were talking to a brick wall and wasting your time responding.
    1
    1. Act says:

      “I have so many books, I have the best books, everyone says the dialogue is great in all my books.”

      4
    2. illhousen says:

      To be fair, the book in question is Necronomicon. It cannot be shown lest it would drive you mad.

      1
  2. Siykoh says:
    Completely childish. This whole situation is has become utterly petty. On both sides. Why are you so set on making the grammar in Pokemom fanfiction exactly the way you want it? Is it an OCD thing? Do you want to feel powerful? Do you just like being harsh, when there are obvious alternates that could make people feel better about themselves? Perhaps so, because that one person you had the debate with has now completely deleted the content on their profile. How is that improving the Fandom? It’s not, it’s just spreading bitterness and hate among everyone. Some of the greatest classics have different writing styles, but are their stories horrible? No, of course not! Take a better approach to this, or just stop and keep it all to yourself. When I was last in Pokemon a year ago, nothing like this was around, and now that I’ve returned I can’t help but feel a little sad.

    -Siykoh out-

    2
    1. Indiscretion says:

      [Why are you so set on making the grammar in Pokemom fanfiction exactly the way you want it?]

      If you saw someone spell liek ths in theyre strory, would you correct them? Grammar can be objectively judged to be right or wrong. The basics of grammar here don’t really have anything to do with how creative or expressive a writer is. But it’s much harder to tell how good a story is if grammar gets in the way of the readability of a story, just how spelling gets in the way of understanding a sentence. St. Elmo’s Fire quote from the post:

      [Its purpose is to enable clear and consistent communication. Inconsistent dialogue formatting does make writing confusing and unclear. Forcing your readers to constantly puzzle out what you were trying to say in a given sentence is extremely inconsiderate.]

      [Perhaps so, because that one person you had the debate with has now completely deleted the content on their profile.]

      [It’s not, it’s just spreading bitterness and hate among everyone.]

      But is this bitterness and hate? As you can see from how I was talking about grammar as an objective problem, I saw St. Elmo’s Fire read something that he saw problems with, and stated those problems. If you were someone upset enough to delete your story or profile, then why did you do it? Was it because you didn’t like seeing errors on it, or that there was someone saying there were errors, or that a story with criticism reflects badly on you, or something else or some extension of these? If you aren’t sure, or weren’t the person that deleted their story, then you should ask that person why they did without making assumptions about one reason or another. (It really isn’t obvious to me.) 

      I’m conflating deleting a story and deleting a profile as the same thing (deleting stuff you wrote after someone criticized it); please tell me if they mean different things (and how). 

      And hm. Whether an author changes their story or not is entirely their own choice. If someone comes by and says ‘I don’t like x, y, and z about your story’, there’s nothing saying that they have to listen to that person (they can block them straight off), or spend time arguing why their position is right with them. Authors don’t need to prove anything to reviewers: it’s their story, after all. Of course they can choose to, and they can argue for their position, but it’s not like other or existing readers will shake their head and shun their story just because one person didn’t like it. If they like it, they have things they liked about it, and those things haven’t changed. (Granted this kind of sucks since stories don’t get reviewed often now, but even if you only see St. Elmo’s Fire’s review and go 100% negative review rate in your head, it’s important to keep in mind that he’s only one person, and if you were trying to write something people would like, you liked it, and other people that like the same thing you do too.) I don’t know why said author deleted their stuff, so this was a scattershot approach for a bunch of reasons why. Hopefully some of them will be relevant?

      5
    2. SpoonyViking says:

      If people don’t want to receive criticism and improve on their art, why are they even using a public medium to publish their art? If all they want is to “express themselves” or something they don’t need to post their fics, they can just keep it for themselves and maybe send it to a few acquaintances and friends.

      3

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