Children of the Dragon Ch3-4

It’s time for more Children of the Dragon, by which I mean more exalts who are not at all dragonblooded.

Chejop Kejak! He’s whining that good help is everywhere, assuming you didn’t ask too much of it but the problem was that smart help was difficult to find which sounds really profound for that split second before you remember that “good help” always means competent help. Every time someone laments the lack of good help they mean that they have help but it’s too dumb to be useful.

He explains that there’s all sorts of important, difficult tasks that require being super-discrete about it. And it’s not like he’s the leader of an entire exalt type that specializes in exactly that and have access to the only real fast-travel in the game or anything! And also oversees another less specialized but far more numerous exalt type! CLEARLY, one mortal was indefuckingspensible.

He’d tried to find Wren, of course, numerous times. Messages had gone out to his agents across the Threshold and beyond: “report in if you see Eliezer Wren.” A dozen false alarms were reported, checked out, and dismissed and their authors suitably chastised.

“What the fuck?” asked another passing sidereal.

“OMG u don understaaaaaaaaaaand!” Ketchup Carjack replied. “Creation was large, after all.”

“The Loom covers the whole of Creation! Just ask a pattern spider about Wren’s thread. This is our fucking specialty! There are cheat codes embedded in reality itself for this!”

and Wren was just one man with a knack for concealing himself!” Carjack wept.

“We spent fifteen hundred years tracking celestial exalts on this thing. 99% of which were fucking LUNARS. Remember lunars? They’re the ones that are just a pile of disguise charms with super strength that Luna insisted ‘totally counted’ as a single concept. You spearheaded our extermination campaign against them, the one that was so successful they were driven out of Creation into the Wyld itself.”

Carjack sobbed more deeply. Wren was privy to enough of Kejak’s secrets to make him a valuable prize

The sidereal’s eye began to twitch. “When would you even tell him anything important? HE’S JUST A MORTAL.”

“Look ok I may have spent my acquaintance points unwisely but in my defense something came up this one time and I may have panicked and thought I’d need to mindrape someone into a lobotomized dragon for a fast trip but then it turned out to be a false alarm but I’d already run the initial charms to make us buddies and it turns out it’s really convenient to get to vent to the same person you’re using to fix a problem ok,” said Carjack, then returned to sobbing about how if Wren was legit dead it would be barely acceptable but oh my god what if he was still alive even as a mortal Wren is just so important and knows so much important shit and it is the most important thing in all Creation that they find him and bring him back.

“I’m backstabbing your incompetent ass and taking over the Bronze,” said Chejop Kejak. “Also, I’m then going to convince the pattern spiders to retcon everything to say that actually I was in charge this whole time in an attempt to erase this embarrassment from reality itself.”

Carjack ignored this and sulked off to a plain monk cell to cry more because remember how last book, he had his ceiling done up as stars but the plaster was mysteriously cracking?

There was now a brace of monks in the chamber around the clock, constantly shoring up moldering bits of the ceiling or replacing celestial spheres that had fallen.

Another option, I suppose, is that Carjack is in fact a mortal himself, who’s been fucked with enough to think he is and perhaps even count partly as Kejak. So he thinks this is how divination works and goes on about how the flaws are wrecking his predictions and meanwhile actually it’s that his sidereal handlers who are getting messed up by all the new thread-snapping exalted assholes running around and so the predictions they’re feeding him are screwing up. The ceiling is supposed to be an interface and it’s crumbling because it’s suffering similar damage as the Loom itself but doesn’t have a million pattern spiders running all over fixing it up.

Supporting this option, he goes on to say, He’d tried to substitute other resources, but time and again, he’d failed. because all his “divination” techniques are just nonsense he was fed so he’d think he was the real sidereal.

Anyway, he decides it’s time to pull out the big guns:

Have the Chamber of the Unbroken Circle cleansed and purified. I’ll need seventeen braziers in there, all bronze, and herbs for meditation. Also, bring me salt and a leather thong knotted around nine stones.”

It’s summoning time!

There’s your standard fires burning fragrant herbs and chanting. He goes on to explain that despite the fact this room was just referred to as the one with an unbroken circle, There was no protective circle on the floor because the thing he’s summoning is such a huge deal it won’t be held by one. He goes on to explain most of the ritual itself is probably bullshit but he’s going along with it because it makes the deity he’s summoning less annoyed with the whole summoning thing, and Carjack, if it doesn’t like being summoned maybe next time you head home for the night you could just walk one block over and knock on its door? Or invite it to a party/get an invite to a party it’s attending? You have other options. Again, kind of the point of your exalt type.

A gong sounded somewhere in the. distance. It was followed by another, and then a third. The sound of birds exploding into flight filled the chamber

This is not, I believe, at all related to Yuyu’s own patron who’s a bird and marked by the sound of wings. It’s a bit of a rehash, and it’s not even necessary – sure, birds are thought to see a lot because they’re high up and know a lot because they’re talking to each other, but a god of something probably doesn’t need to have the information actually flown to him plus Carjack here is looking for someone hidden, and it’s going to go on to be able to tell him even about underworld events, so a god of rodents would fit far better. But Wren is a bird so Carjack went for the pun over sense.

There’s a bit of cleverness here, though – Carjack has an acolyte here supposedly in charge of keeping the fires topped off with herbs but really here as a human sacrifice but really really she’s a fake sacrifice because he’s pretending he thinks she’s a virgin when she’s not and then when Birdgod’s all “haha ur dumbs” he makes a big deal of how wow, you sure got me Birdgod someone as awesome as you could totally answer a minor question no problem also please don’t think about why I think this is important just think about how much better than me you are…

While normally I would appreciate the fine ethical standard, this is Exalted: The Grimshit and Kejak’s thing in particular is sacrifice for the greater good because sunk cost fallacy. YOU should have the option for cleverness, because the point of Exalted isn’t that there’s only bad options available, it’s just that everyone keeps picking the bad ones because they’re sure things…especially when we’re talking about the one who went with the vision of Bronze and justified this explicitly with the fact that yes, it sucked, but at least it was a sure thing.

Meanwhile, Birdgod tells him Wren is, in fact, dead.

He died in the dungeons of the Prince of Shadows, and thus has passed from your service. My children have few eyes in the Underworld, but they say he has been seen there, traveling with strange and fell companions. Your servant is lost to you.”

And for some reason, Kejak does not immediately freak out at the knowledge that this is the worst of all possible outcomes – his servant is dead AND his spectral brain is getting picked by the enemies of Creation despite that.

Anyway, Birdgod fucks off, Kejak tells the freaked-out acolyte that everyone knows she and her tutor are fucking. Incidentally, they’re gay. The series is getting better at the inclusiveness part of Exalted’s worldbuilding, at least.

Immediately after he adds that she’d better never talk about any of this or he’ll murder her and mutilate the body, she asks who Wren is anyway. Kejak, continuing to not register the reminder that knowledge can totally persist after death, just says he’s some dead guy, because next chapter will be about some other dead guy!

Some other dead guy wakes up to find out he’s got yet another body with perfectly good eyes. He’s super happy about this despite the fact he seemed to be seeing fine without them previously. He then checks out the rest of his naked self with his brand-new eyes to see it’s all flawless.

While this would appear to be the neverborn’s inexplicable favor, even more inexplicably, actually he’s still got to go get judged and it’s wholly possible all the effort that went into somehow giving him yet another body will be wasted.

On the other hand, if you’re going to have contradictory nonsense happening, the neverborn are very much the plot devices to use.

What’s a trifle too inexplicable is The stone beneath him was pleasantly cool, and it was the pleasant sensation of temperature he felt, not pain. For the first time in gods alone knew how long, there was no pain. The neverborn are pain. These are things that are trying to destroy all of existence because the closest thing they can get to imagining “no pain” is the complete oblivion of everything that ever is or was. Their message to the rest of the undead is “jump into the void, you can’t feel pain once there’s no you left to feel it :D” Even if they wanted to motivate Ratcatcher by not hurting him, I don’t think they could.

So there’s someone to laugh at Ratcatcher being omg wtf where am I? we have another familiar face:

One eye socket bulged with squirming maggots, which dripped and wriggled and fell onto the floor. The other eye was perfect and beautiful, bright blue in the gloom. Its chin was sharp, its features elongated. and its hair thin and long.

I refuse to chance my stance regarding Idli and how I’m sure he was acting in good faith originally. That he’s thrown his lot in with the neverborn now is no doubt a consequence of having to switch sides once Wren made it clear how dangerous a monster he was, and indeed, there’s no sign this is still “Idli”. He’s referred to in the narration only as “thing” and “creature”, as if he’s had to sacrifice his very name to the void.

Indeed, “I know better,” he said cautiously, ”than to ask who you are.” is no doubt Ratcatcher recognizing that to say anything that would make Idli acknowledge his former name would just lead to a cranky smackdown by the neverborn.

Of course, while I can make that make sense there’s only so much I can do. Ratcatcher continues to gush about his new body, claiming there was no pain, only strength and power that he’d been missing since a long-ago night in the rain when he’d first incurred his master’s displeasure. which implies that somehow he got nerfed by the Prince of Shadows right then? Ratcatcher, power in Exalted is very much a no-backsies sort of thing. If power could be yoinked back out, none of the setting could exist. The fuckups that followed are all on you. WHY MUST YOU DO THIS WHEN YOU COULD’VE JUST REFERRED TO THE FIRST BODY SWAP? It’s like you’re trying to annoy me!

He then tries out a bunch of sword moves.

“Yes!” he exulted, and moved with more confidence. The guide watched him, bemused, and even applauded politely after one particularly convoluted mock passage.
Embarrassed, Ratcatcher stopped, turning his head and bringing his hands to his sides. “I apologize,” he said. “You said we should be leaving.. .”
The creature nodded. “And so we should. But there was time for this, I think. It will help you choose, later.”

Seriously though, I love thing-that-used-to-be-named-Idli. He’s pretty nice. Ratcatcher is also weirdly nice often enough I’m inclined to take it as an underlying personality trait that he’s trying to shake himself of.

But now they head off

he reveled in the sensation of each footfall on stone, or on soft earth, or on rusty and heated metal. They passed through corridors that had been built by industrious hands, and those that looked as if grubs had gnawed them out of the earth. Each was lit to a pleasant dimness, and each led gently but inevitably downwards.

Place is a more pleasant than I’d make it but still, pretty good.

Eventually, they came to a spit of weathered, gray stone that projected out over a vast, unlit abyss. Barely the width of a man, it arched impossibly over the blackness, and winds from the depths howled up and over it.

It’s time to say hi to the void!

Ratcatcher now feels cold.

It’s them you feel. If it were merely cold, you’d feel nothing. Not in this place, with you as you are.

What Ratcatcher “is” is unclear, although the book does give enough information that we get a good idea of how it functions and, in another game where vast forces hold powers you’ll never directly touch, not actually explaining what the neverborn are doing here wouldn’t be a problem. Basically, he’s invulnerable until he actually leaves the underworld, either because all the underworld is controlled by the neverborn OR because he’s just illusory and they only make his body real in the final moment when he leaves OR some other reason I’m not thinking of.

The problem is none of these really make much sense with how much control the neverborn actually have over the underworld, but then, it’s also canon that it’s completely impossible to bring anyone back to life ever and Ratcatcher really should’ve just rolled up a new character by now.

But right now, what matters is Ratcatcher is a complete fucking idiot.

Ratcatcher found himself unable to look away from the pit. Was there light in the depths? Faintly, he thought he saw something glow, a faint white light like a band of stars cutting across the night sky. Fascinated, he looked on. The light had a shape, he was sure, one that he could almost discern. Just another moment, and he’d be able to see…
With a cry, he threw himself back from the precipice

He’s freaked out because looking down toward the neverborn and the void, he saw the neverborn hovering above the void. Admittedly, about what you’d expect from him.

“Oh, you’re a blessed one, Ratcatcher. You saw them, didn’t you? That’s not a boon they give to all their little ones.” The thing’s chuckles subsided into a rough cough, but amusement still glinted in its one good eye.”‘And you took it so well. They chose well with you.”

Sarcasm? Who the fuck knows. This is a world where the neverborn are just dead humanoid gods and Ratcatcher apparently never went down to the edge of the void before despite being an abyssal who tossed his name into this very pit already.

Ratcatcher apparently comes to the same conclusion about nothing making sense and wants to know if he can chat with Unnamed Undead Friend about what’s going on. There also seem to be weird social effects thrown around or else Ratcatcher is actually pretty subservient and obedient by nature and just tetchy because the Prince of Shadows is an asshole to his subordinates.

Ratcatcher bit his lip. “I should not be here. I should be…” He trailed off in a moment of wonder and pain.
“Dead? Yes. Well, you are dead.” The creature’s laugh was a dry wheeze. “But this is the wrong kind of death for you, is it not? That is what puzzles you.”
“Yes,” he said again. Gingerly, Ratcatcher knelt. He did not know why he did so, It simply seemed appropriate, and it gratified him out of all proportion to see the being opposite him smile benignly at the sight. “I should be elsewhere. I’ve failed. Failed many times. I don’t deserve-” he held up his hands and gazed at them “-this.”

Unnamed Undead Friend asks if he’s expecting horrible punishments for screwing up and calls him a poor fool for thinking it.

Ratcatcher lifted his head, uncomprehending. “I don’t understand,” he said. “When I failed the Prince of Shadows, I was punished. Surely I’ve failed those who dwell in darkness as well, and thus I shall be punished by them?”
Unexpectedly, Ratcatcher’s guide grimaced. “Is that all you’ve learned? No wonder you’re a poor tool,” it said, and spat maggots onto the floor.

Which suggests that the Prince of Shadows is just shit at managing people, which…does appear to be the case, doesn’t it?

I feel I tend to see subservient evil characters an odd lot. I guess, while ambition = evil is common, good = acting independently. We’re really into characters going rogue and doing what they think they should.

Anyway, Unnamed Undead Friend isn’t saying he won’t be punished. He just has no clue. His job was to escort the guy here and tell him to walk out so he’s standing over the void. The neverborn will then resolve the question of if they plan to punish, reward, or punishreward him by doing so.

“A little further,” his guide called. There was no amusement in its voice anymore. Briefly, Ratcatcher considered the notion that if the guide had meant to do him harm, then surely he would have taken an opportunity before this one to do so. But the memory of games of sadism and pain played at the Prince of Shadows’ knee reasserted themselves, and he found himself very nervous indeed.

And to return for a moment to the issue of semibyssals and deathlords, it does seem like the Prince of Shadows actually is fulfilling a similar role here to the deathlord that’s his canonical patron, of getting people embroiled in stupid shit with some weird justification that no actually you’ll realize it’s all meaningless that only makes sense to them as a millennium-old insane ghost while everyone else takes it at face value.

It’s just it makes more sense with the Lover Clad in the Raiment of Tears given nonstop undead orgies are more obviously pointless while the Prince of Shadows’ running everything as eternal middle school with actual knives seems like it’d take way longer for anyone to get the “joke” that it’s pointless to strive for anything. Also, she does it without crippling her entire organization in the process.

Anyway, there’s more wind and weird bruised violet light and the neverborn reach up and tear him and the rock loose.

Forgive me, my prince, he found himself thinking

Ratcatcher, he’s just not that into you.

He wakes up again to find himself back. Unnamed Undead Friend says he has no clue how much actual time that took because haha, time, like that’s even a thing, but definitely the neverborn debated it for however long “long” is. Because he’s still not very bright, he asks what the judgement was and Unnamed Undead Friend reiterates yet again that if he was found wanting he wouldn’t still exist to be asking such dumb questions.

Suddenly, Unnamed Undead Friend gets straight-up possessed to say a bizarrely coherent message from the neverborn:

You have served us poorly, and by doing so you have served us well. They go on to list how everything he did served their secret secret master plan which happens to look exactly like a string of random events.

They tell him, therefore, that he’s been given this new body to go murder the fuck out of the world. But they’re so super double pleased with his failure-success that they do have an additional offer for him.

“Or,if you desire it, you may seek oblivion or torment, should either please you. We will grant this unto you, for your failures are our glory.

Which just goes to show how little sense it makes to start off this chapter with Ratcatcher going on about how painless his current existence is, as if that’s even a thing.

Ratcatcher does think oblivion and an end to pain sounds pretty nice, despite already having had an end to pain right now, but he wants to get vengeance first.

“I choose resurrection,” he said, in a voice shot through with excitement. “I choose blood and plunder to your greater glory, and I will make great sacrifices unto you when I am reborn.”

Which all suggests that somehow the him running around now isn’t actually real yet and it won’t be until he climbs out of the underworld, which would make sense in some universes but not this one.

Stairs sprouted from the ground, each hewed from black iron and blacker stone. A cruel, spiked railing grew out of the stairs, and the tines of the spikes were stained with rust.

Continuing to not get how the neverborn are all about pain, the return won’t be painful despite the implicit choice of painless oblivion vs non-oblivion existence because Ratcatcher still has the invulnerability going on and those spikes could be cuddly puppies for all it’d matter.

Take up your former service, for this too is the will of the dead gods, and go to your prince. He is in need of you.’’ Ratcatcher bowed, humbly. ‘‘I will do so, and with joy.”

Also, when saying he’d take the resurrection a few lines back, he went on a bit about how he couldn’t wait to not be under the thumb of a certain asshole who keeps sending him off on dumb errands. I can only assume that the Prince of Shadow’s social charms keep reasserting themselves whenever he’s not explicitly thinking about why he’s mad.

Before he goes, Unnamed Undead Friend pauses to say that by the way, fucking kill that fucker Wren and then, oddly, identifies himself as Idli after going to such lengths not to. I can only assume he’s decided to take the resonance hit because it’s more important that he get Ratcatcher to Give Wren my regards before you kill him than not incur the wrath of the neverborn.

Idli watched him go with mild interest. The judgment had surprised him, as had the revelation of the dead gods’ uses for the man. But now he seemed renewed. Transformed. Possibly even effectual.

And we end on this note of subtle hilarity.

22 Comments

  1. illhousen says:

    You know, I’m going to assume that Ratcatcher’s “resurrection” is basically neverbons’ real-life fanfic. On some level they’d like to be alive again (or some parts of them are), so they act out this narrative of their favorite failure servant ascending from the Underworld and being reborn. Only he’s going to just disappear like a mirage he is once he reaches the top.

    1. Farla says:

      I could see that with similar creatures but I feel that’s losing the neverborn’s niche of being so colossally broken. The deathlords would probably spend more time actually doing their job if the neverborn could offer an endgame that isn’t absolutely nothing existing ever again.

      Fanfic of being remade whole seems more the yozi’s wheelhouse.

      Then again, Ratcatcher keeps claiming this place is hell so who knows, maybe he’s actually getting pulled into some semi-labyrinth pocket made by His Ebonness. I could see the Ebon Dragon being super into the idea of transformative death and what is a narrative but the shadows cast by reality?

      1. illhousen says:

        Hm, yes, TED would fit. Canonically, he has ties to the Underworld and was one of two Yozi to negotiate with Neverborns over Exaltations. He’s also the one Yozi to practice necromancy and has a charm that allows you to swap your sorcery for necromancy and vice versa at a cost of nearly dying.

        Plus, his thing is that he actually kinda gets people on individual level unlike many other Yozi and cares about them.

        The other Yozi with ties to the Underworld is Oramus, by the way, and I can see them doing a joint production of fucking with Ratcatcher.

  2. SpoonyViking says:

    Hey, Farla and illhousen (and anyone else who’s knowledgeable about “Exalted”), I thought I’d take the chance to ask you guys something: I only read this game’s 1st edition corebook, but I noticed it had several references and nods towards the classic World of Darkness (Luna, Helios, the Wyld, Incarna, etc.). Were the First and Second Ages officially meant to be a sort of pre-history to “Vampire”, “Werewolf” and the others, or were the writers just reusing concepts from the earlier lines?

    1. Farla says:

      Both. Your standard WoD stuff is all interconnected, so there needed to be connections to Exalted, but it’s taking place on a totally alien world, so…prehistory! Then from the other direction, one of the endings of Werewolf’s apocalypse suggested that actually, Exalted was the new world and WoD was its prehistory.

      1. SpoonyViking says:

        Then from the other direction, one of the endings of Werewolf’s apocalypse suggested that actually, Exalted was the new world and WoD was its prehistory.

        Interesting! I’m going to have to re-read the “Apocalypse” book, see if I catch the reference. Thanks!

        By the way, which “Exalted” edition would you recommend, first or second?

        1. Farla says:

          Well…fluffwise, First was way more interesting (and more on the vast/majestic side than the small/human one) but also more obtuse. Mechanically, both are terrible but Second is supposed to be better.

          I’m not sure if that’s wholly true or just what people thought when they first looked at the books and saw the flaws of the last edition were fixed. (Lunars was definitely a total disaster the first time around and is just bland the second time, but Abyssals was written by someone who outright hated them and so they got rewritten rules to force people to play them the one way the author approved of.) First has more charms in general and better flavor for them, and the two famously good books (the one about demons and the one about sids) both come from that period. Late second edition had new people and started getting better mechanically (…maybe, still not sure that wasn’t just people seeing patches applied to the known problems and not yet seeing the new ones, and the fact they nerfed Shun the Smiling Lady when the charm objectively sucks and mostly just makes people want to punch your face in makes me think they really didn’t grasp how sideral charms worked) but I hated the fluff direction.

          In conclusion, torrent both editions then tweak heavily.

          1. illhousen says:

            “I’m not sure if that’s wholly true or just what people thought when they
            first looked at the books and saw the flaws of the last edition were
            fixed.”

            Both. Some of the problems were definitely fixed, but they introduced new ones in the process. Sorcery, most notably, wasn’t updated at all, meaning it conflicts with the details of the new system, making some spells (especially damage-dealing ones) near-useless. Though you still have the Solve Problem spell, so it’s not that important.

            “Lunars was definitely a total disaster the first time around and is just bland the second time”

            I rather liked Terrifying Argent Witches fan splatbook to replace Lunars.

            1. Farla says:

              Terrifying Argent Witches was gorgeous, but it didn’t really deliver me improved lunars so much as something really awesome that has overlap. The direction I mostly went from reading/hearing about lunars was always animal-people and individual strength. We know they couldn’t deal with the Great Contagion but could survive when solars couldn’t, so I like the idea they’re weak on charms that have work on the large scale but good at changing themselves to be extremely powerful individuals. (Obviously that design didn’t work out because solars must be bestest at everything, so TAW remedying the bigger holes in their charmset is probably best fix we’ll have.)

              Reply
          2. SpoonyViking says:

            I see. Thanks!

    2. illhousen says:

      Kinda? From what I understand, initially it was supposed to be a prehistory of WoD as Farla says (though I’m not sure if it was by deliberate intent or because White Wolf just liked to reuse cool concepts like Neverborns), but at some point the idea was dropped once the devs realized there is no way to reconcile the two settings.

      Not sure if it was before or after the end of old WoD, though.

      Either way, in general it’s better not to connect the settings directly for much the same reasons why it’s a bad idea to cross old WoD splats in one game beyond an occasional nod.

      1. SpoonyViking says:

        I’m not sure if this is true, but I’ve read that the new hunters from “Hunter: The Vigil” (the Imbued, I think they’re called?) supposedly receive their powers from the fragments of the souls of Solar Exalts, so maybe it was after?

        Either way, in general it’s better not to connect the settings directly for much the same reasons why it’s a bad idea to cross old WoD splats in one game beyond an occasional nod.

        Ah, I’d say that depends. I find “Changeling” too different in tone from the other lines to use anything from it, and I don’t think “Vampire” ‘s themes are really served in any way by the other lines, but I think “Werewolf” plays really well with the others. Well, metaphysically, anyway; mages are too squishy to really hang around werewolves. :-P

        Oh, and which “Exalted” edition would you recommend, first or second?

        1. illhousen says:

          “I’m not sure if this is true, but I’ve read that the new hunters from
          “Hunter: The Vigil” (the Imbued, I think they’re called?) supposedly
          receive their powers from the fragments of the souls of Solar Exalts, so
          maybe it was after?”

          Nah, most new Hunters don’t have powers. They’re just normal people who became aware of the supernatural and decided to kick its ass.

          There is a number of conspiracies that do have powers, but they all get them from different sources. You have holy priests because of course, you have a paramedical organization that replaces your limbs with demons, you have a high-tech maybe-government organization with cool gadgets, you have PCs people who know where the great magical treasures are, guard them from others and use them against enemies, etc.

          It’s possible that I’ve missed Imbued in one book or another as I don’t read everything WoD, but I don’t really recall them being brought up.

          “Well, metaphysically, anyway; mages are too squishy to really hang around werewolves.”

          Well, that’s pretty much it. If it’s not metaphysics, it’s game balance. If it’s not game balance, it’s themes. If it’s not themes, it’s aesthetic. There is always something that makes the crossover needlessly complicated.

          One way to do a crossover that I’ve seen done well is going with the secondary splats. You know, ghouls, sorcerers, werewolf kins whatever they’re called, mundane hunters, etc. Leave the grand scheme of things out of it and play as people touched by the supernatural but aren’t completely in tune with it.

          Still needs some rebalancing, but there is a potential in the idea.

          “Oh, and which “Exalted” edition would you recommend, first or second?”

          As Farla said, read both and play neither. I ended up doing a quick conversion to FATE Kerebros Club for my game, it worked well enough.

          1. SpoonyViking says:

            There is always something that makes the crossover needlessly complicated.

            Oh, by “crossover”, did you mean “PCs playing as different types”? Then no, I’d never do that again.* I hardly even let players play as one of the other changing breeds anymore, it’s just too much hassle.

            * Well… A Sorcerer Kinfolk seems doable, though. They will still be very squishy, but at least they’ll be able to use their magic freely.

            I ended up doing a quick conversion to FATE Kerebros Club for my game, it worked well enough.

            I might adapt the setting to the old MEGS, then. Thanks!

            1. illhousen says:

              “Oh, by “crossover”, did you mean “PCs playing as different types”?”

              Yeah. Using members of other splats as antagonists or occasional NPCs is fine, at least as long as you’re still mostly focusing on splat-specific problems. It’s when you go deeper you run into problems.

              Reply
              1. SpoonyViking says:

                Oh, I forgot to reply to this:

                Nah, most new Hunters don’t have powers. They’re just normal people who became aware of the supernatural and decided to kick its ass.

                I thought all the Imbued received various resistances (and even immunities) to supernatural powers even at their basic.

              2. illhousen says:

                I think you’re mixing them up with old Hunters who did have powers allowing them to deal with the supernatural.

                New Hunters… Well, one of the organizations is a worker union peeved at all them damn bloodsuckers stomping down on a common man.

                So, yeah, they’re regular people for the most part.

                In terms of powers available to all Hunters, they have Tactics. Which are actual tactics they perform to get a few more dice on the roll, not something supernatural.

              3. SpoonyViking says:

                Ah, I mixed things up, indeed. I meant to say “Hunter: The Reckoning” before, not “Hunter: The Vigil”. I called them “new hunters” to differentiate them from the previous “Hunters Hunted” (and similar books) characters. My bad! Those were the people (collectively, the “Imbued”) who apparently received their powers from fragments of Exalted souls.*

                * Come to think of it, that theory might also explain the mages’ Avatars.

      2. Farla says:

        there is no way to reconcile the two settings.

        I actually saw people manage! So what happens is somebody, and we all know it was solars, decided to deal with the problem of wyld eating creation and possibly yozis in the sky by connecting Creation’s edges to make it round and disconnecting the pole of air so that acts as the buffer space and there’s no longer any bits of Creation proper touching dangerous things. (We don’t need to explain stuff like “but what about all of space ever” because obviously that’s just what they want you to think.)

        It doesn’t actually add anything whatsoever to WoD in the process and changes it from “one splat knows the secret history of the world while the others are all misguided” to “none of them do, haha fuck every last one of you!”, but you can technically reconcile the two.

        1. illhousen says:

          “and we all know it was solars”

          Now, let’s bee fair, they could have been working with the Golden Faction. All of it at once.

          1. Farla says:

            No doubt having just finished convincing all other sids to join the Gold Faction minutes beforehand.

            1. illhousen says:

              It seemed like such a good idea at the time.

              Reply

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