“I’m very aware of the childish spat you and your friends are having with another group of individuals on this site. Personally, I think both of you have shown just outright disgusting behavior, and quite frankly, both sides are just as petty.”
ZadArchieA response to your review at https://www.fanfiction.net/r/13062628/
Thank you for taking the time to review my work.
You know, after some time thinking it over, and seeing your profile, I do believe you’re right. I should at least give you an explanation for why I’m blocking you rather than just leaving you clueless. So, for the next 24 hours, I am removing you from the block to at least explain my case. Let’s start with the review itself. On the whole, there really isn’t a problem I have with the review itself, just the person sending it. It is essentially the kind of constructive criticism I would expect out of anyone. So, to address a few parts of it.
[I appreciate that you’re not capitalizing pokemon.]
On the whole, I agree with you and several of your friends’ argument about capitalizing pokemon names. In a logical sense, this is really the more correct way to treat them. However, I do not like your means of forcing this kind of belief down other’s throats (and I know you and your bunch claim otherwise. I watch your forum. But, that is essentially what you do). There are enough arguments on both sides of this issue, that I personally don’t see it as a big deal one way or the other. Grammatically, yes, you’re right, but this is more of a petty canon matter. In my opinion, so long as the author picks one method and sticks to it consistently, I’m okay with it. If I’m going to take issues with grammar, it’ll be with real issues of grammar such as dialogue punctuation, capitalization of actual, real-world proper nouns, and paragraph setup. The stupid disputes over characters in a video game for the sake of fanfiction isn’t high on my grammar priority list for critiquing a work.
[This is perfectly decent, but… there isn’t much here that we can’t get from just playing the games ourselves. The Pokemon games are not well-suited to novelizations, as their plots are largely just vehicles for making you fight a bunch of battles which, while cool in a game where you’re actually playing through them, are not interesting to read about.]
I beg to differ. I personally like reading such stories, hence why I wanted to write one myself. I do think there is rich story embedded within the games (considering that’s the only medium of Pokemon I know. I’ve never watched the anime or read the manga). But, I agree, just the regular grind of the games isn’t interesting enough. I plan on expanding these areas. But, then again, this is only the first chapter.
[If you want to make a story out of it, you’ll need to diverge heavily from canon and introduce a ton of unique elements of your own.]
Not necessarily “diverge” so much as “expand upon.”
[Do you have some unique spin on the game’s plot, some unusual interpretation of the setting you want to explore? Try focusing on that.]
I don’t feel I have to share my future ideas with you. Sorry, but I don’t discuss plot points with people who think they’re holier than thou, especially when one writes fics that break the site’s rules. Just a reminder of that.
Anyway, that’s all I have to say about the review. Let’s move on to why this constitutes as a block from me. After all, several other people have reviewed me in such a manner, and I don’t mind in the slightest.
I’m very aware of the childish spat you and your friends are having with another group of individuals on this site. Personally, I think both of you have shown just outright disgusting behavior, and quite frankly, both sides are just as petty. Hybrid, of course, reacted negatively and is throwing a royal tempertantrum that cannot be condoned, to that I’ll agree, but your group really is no better. Despite your claims to “help” and offer “constructive criticism,” more or less, you guys are just being pretentious jerks who think you know what’s best for every Pokemon writer out there. Honestly, I laughed at Farla’s fanfiction guide because of how ridiculous that sounds. Sure, they have some good ideas, but there is no one way to write a story.
And, don’t get me started on the downright deplorable behavior I have seen regarding Pokemon religion in fics. I understand where you’re coming from. Truly, I do. I have studied mythology, religious studies, and folklore for going on seven years now at a graduate level. I have a deep respect and sense of spirituality from the classroom that I never got in a traditional church. And, yes, I understand what you were trying to say: that authors should be willing to explore religion in differing ways, and not just default to only one religion. However, by calling out authors for being “dull” or “ignorant” for choosing the interpretation they have, are you really any better than they? Just because the minority religion calls the majority wrong and stupid does not make it right. Who are you to tell others how to interpret canon material?
So, in conclusion, I find this small, playground war between fan brats (because yes, both of your groups are small in comparison to the Pokemon fandom, and the majority of Pokemon fans could care less about your quarel) to be just plain silly. I will have no part in it and I am not going to support either side. So, I will block anyone who comes from either side of this argument. Istwill already earned their block as well yesterday.
You can choose to continue reading my fic if you choose (though I doubt it since anymore it seems you just review for the sake of trying to provoke the other side rather than to actually enjoy anything you read) or not. I really don’t care either way, and actually probably prefer if you didn’t since I’m not writing this story for you and your pretentious friends or Hybrid’s whiny followers. I’m writing it for myself and my own enjoyment. So, kindly take it where the sun don’t shine.
Zad
Hybrid submitted false reports to get our website taken down, our forum here taken down, and to get us banned from the site. She has claimed we hacked her computer, that we torture animals to death and upload the videos to the internet, and that we are drug dealers. She has been sending us harassment through multiple accounts and anon for months while we have left her alone. She has attacked our friend when she posted about having cancer to say that she should be dead. She has said that she wants all of us to be dead and how happy she would be if that were true.
She has done all of that because one of her accounts, before we even knew she was sockpuppetting, got banned from Farla’s forum for thinking racial slurs were funny.
If you’re mad about a review, admit you’re mad about a review. Don’t try to pretend that you’re being rational when you say that.
I’m not condoning anything she has done. I’m just saying, you’ve done no better. I’m saying I don’t think the tone and lack of tact you use in reviews is very helpful to anyone.
I’m hardly mad about the review. Like I said, there were some good points in there. It’s like any constructive criticism I’ve gotten. I’ll take some of it, I’ll leave some of it. But, I really don’t care for either group hashing out their stupid review war on my fics.
[I’m just saying, you’ve done no better.]
Really? List everything, ANYTHING, I have done that is as bad as ONE THING on that list. Do it right now.
Fair enough.
1. You enforce your viewpoints onto others in a rather rude manner. Honestly, the religion thing alone has me just seething. I’m just thankful you aren’t using this argument to criticize real religions.
2. You chose to make a big deal out of it and give her the attention she craves. The more you talk about her actions, the more she’s going to be riled up. If you had ignored her, she probably would have just gotten bored and gone away.
3. You disrespect other author’s interpretation of canon material to a point where I’m almost ashamed to even admit you’re even partially right on some of your points.
4. You have berated and insulted people on other sites and forums, which you freely admit. It is your site, and that is your rules, but it is just disrespectful. At least I have the decency to censor out names and identifying information.
5. This one isn’t for you personally, more just some of the other people on the forum. They have used rather nasty phrases and expressions wishing someone dead. Just as bad as Hybrid’s attacks.
Maybe these aren’t as bad as some of her actions, but they are still disrespectful, and since it seems clear that you are older than Hybrid, you really should know better.
I said anything, even one thing, that was AS BAD, not every petty grievance you have with me.To be honest, I consider both side’s actions to be equally childish. It’s very simple: report, ignore, move on. Had either side done that from the get-go, I don’t think it would have escalated. And yes, I do consider some of those as bad. Treating others with disrespect, even if it is something small, is a huge no-no in my book.[It’s very simple: report, ignore, move on.]
What evidence do you have we didn’t?
And again, not what I asked. You say I and my group are just as bad as one person who has committed all of those actions. Tell me right now or admit this is your petty attempt to justify your own hurt feelings.
[What evidence do you have we didn’t?]
The fact that you keep talking about it on that forum, really. You know that she’s watching it. You know that she’s reacting to every little thing said there. The more you feed the troll, the more trouble they’ll cause. If you hadn’t even bothered to mention it at all and just reported it, the problem would have gone away.
[Tell me right now or admit this is your petty attempt to justify your own hurt feelings.]
I do genuinely believe you’re just as bad. True, it’s not to the extremes she took, but by simply going to the lengths you have to discuss her and her actions, reviewing stories just to prove you’re right (I genuinely don’t believe you picked my story to read because you were actually interested in it, just to put out more reviews to see what Hybrid’s bunch would do), and treating yourselves as though you are the end-all-be-all authority on writing fanfic, you have proven that you’re just as bad, in my eyes. That is a matter of opinion, yes, but it is my reason, and it is important to me.
You assume that I’m ungrateful for the review. Hardly the case. Like I said, there were some valid points. I’m sorry that I’m not going to worship the ground you walk on and take every one of those suggestions. But, I’m also not going to get in the middle of you both, and I’m not going to allow you to continue your argument with them using my review page as a debate stage.
[The fact that you keep talking about it on that forum, really.]
Maybe if you had actually checked the timestamps you’d have seen we only started talking about it one month after she started this. Wow, it’s almost like we spent a whole month following your advice and it did nothing!
You’re CU. You know reporting does nothing. Don’t give me this “just report and move on” bull.
[True, it’s not to the extremes she took, but by simply going to the lengths you have to discuss her and her actions]
I’m sorry, defending myself makes me just as bad?
[Maybe if you had actually checked the timestamps you’d have seen we only started talking about it one month after she started this.]
That’s why I find even talking about trolls at all is pretty useless. I don’t even mention them when I update my stories. I just pretend they don’t exist, and usually, they don’t after a few weeks. True, Hybrid’s more persistent, but all bullies go away eventually if they aren’t getting the attention they crave.
[You’re CU. You know reporting does nothing. Don’t give me this “just report and move on” bull.]
Beg to differ on that. Reporting does do something. It’s slow, to be fair, but eventually, those reports do go through. I’m not satisfied with the speed, no, but it’s better than nothing.
[I’m sorry, defending myself makes me just as bad?]
Again, ignoring and not even giving Hybrid the time of day would have been the method I would have used.
Look, I feel like we’re just going round and round in circles. I disagreed with you, and I explain why. I think you’re better off to take the advice I’ve been giving: ignore and move on. There is nothing changing my mind on this. The fact that you keep fighting it with me (and I’m not even going to be a part of this) shows that you’re unable to let things go.
[That’s why I find even talking about trolls at all is pretty useless. I don’t even mention them when I update my stories.]
I did that? Where.
Do you mean dead silence? So I guess you’re just as bad as she is given you mention trolls on the CU forum. God, what a piece of shit who is exactly as bad as Hybrid you are.
[I did that? Where.]
Oh, no, that’s more of a personal thing for me. See, when I get flame reviews (genuine ones, Istwill is full of shit saying that your reviews are flames), I just make a big deal out of thanking the people who do leave legitimate reviews and then never so much as mention the flamer’s existence. When I said talking about trolls was useless, I meant, yet again, that by continuing the discussion about Hybrid, you give her the acknowledgement she wants. Cut her off from the food supply, and she’ll starve without that attention.
[Do you mean dead silence?]
Yes, usually the best method.
[So I guess you’re just as bad as she is given you mention trolls on the CU forum.]
Fair point. I don’t like listing the “Troll, report only” situation on the SiV. I usually prefer to report those and go on, but CU forum rules do dictate I have to do that.
Or do you mean in the Worst Response thread? Again, fair point. Though, not all of those are necessarily trolls. I dictate a troll as someone who’s writing rule-breaking fic after rule-breaking fic just to get attention. Those I usually try not to mention on that thread (I think there was one or two, though).
[God, what a piece of shit who is exactly as bad as Hybrid you are.]
At least I’m willing to admit my mistakes. True, I have mentioned trolls sometimes on forums. It’s really tempting to want to stick it too them and let them know you won’t be cowed into submission. But, I do try to resist as best I can, but I’m not perfect. The thing is, you go on acting as though you are completely blameless in this situation without admitting that you are wrong in some regards. I do think the way you and some of the others go about reviewing isn’t really effective. And I’m not saying the content of what you say is wrong. No, no, no. Reviews do not always have to be glowing praise. That’s just silly. But there is a way to pull it off with tact and courtesy, and that only comes from reviewing a story with genuine interest. I find that my best reviews, even when I am giving the bad news to an author about their work, usually come when I am actually reading a story for the sake of reading the story. When I truly want to enjoy what I’m reading, then I’m more invested in wanting to see the author improve. I want to continue to see them grow as a writer.
Most of the reviews I see from you are just mostly straightforward criticism with very little else. Look, there’s nothing wrong with being objective in reviews, sometimes that is a way to go about it. But, did you even read the story because you wanted to, or were you just doing it to review for the sake of reviewing? Most of the time, the attitude I get from you is that you’re just reviewing to push your ideals onto other writers, to provoke the counter reviews from Hybrid and Istwill just to see what they’ll do, and to continue arguing that you are right and everyone should just listen to you because you’re so great. That may not be who you really are, and I don’t believe anyone is truly like that. But, that is how those reviews are coming off, and I’m just not going to be a part of a reviewing war.
[The thing is, you go on acting as though you are completely blameless in this situation without admitting that you are wrong in some regards.]
No. You said I was exactly as bad. Tell me how, or admit your mistake, if you’re so good at doing that.
Make sure you “admit your mistake” for everyone else on that forum, who I assume you hate just as much as me for being exactly as bad as Hybrid for not completely ignoring all trolls.
[No. You said I was exactly as bad.]
In the sense that you both are too proud to admit your mistakes, forget about the whole thing, and move on. I still stand by what I said. Both of your actions have been childish and petty, and I’m surprised such asinine behavior has continued to go on for so long.
[Make sure you “admit your mistake” for everyone else on that forum,]
See, now you want me to go and start something on the forum just so you can stir up trouble. I’m not giving into that. As I said, I’m not getting involved. I’m not going to pre-block anyone, since that is rude, but I’m also not going to be interested in anything either side has to say. But, you did say in your profile if I disagreed, I should at least give you reasons. I have done that much.
[In the sense that you both are too proud to admit your mistakes]
So you think that the only thing Hybrid did wrong was that she was too proud to admit her mistakes?
I don’t think I’m the one in this conversation too proud to admit when they’ve made a godawfully stupid mistake.
See, I feel like you’re not even bothering to read these PMs anymore.
I said that both of you were in the wrong. You for acting so high and mighty and getting more than just a little pushy in reviews, Hybrid for taking things too far by seeking retribution when she really should have just ignored you if she didn’t like what you had to say, and both of you for sticking to this stupid game for so long going tit-for-tat with each other.
[I don’t think I’m the one in this conversation too proud to admit when they’ve made a godawfully stupid mistake.]
And what mistake was that, pray tell? I thought I’d at least be courteous enough to give you reasons for my disagreements. I have thanked you kindly for the review. And, let’s be frank, you’ve not even dared to talk about any of my other disagreements with you. You’ve seemed to stay fixated on Hybrid, when I really could care less about them.
You and your group don’t ignore trolls completely, which makes you exactly as bad. Since the highest virtue is to ignore trolls at all costs and never talk to or about them, I shouldn’t talk to trolls like you.
I admit I was wrong for feeding you this long. Goodbye and I hope someday you stop being a horrible troll who tells people to kill themselves.
[You and your group don’t ignore trolls completely, which makes you exactly as bad. Since the highest virtue is to ignore trolls at all costs and never talk to or about them, I shouldn’t talk to trolls like you.]
Ah, you’ve shown your cards now. Much like Hybrid when they tried to fight with me, they just wouldn’t accept the fact that someone disagreed with them. They wouldn’t back down until they could get me to admit they were right, something which I never satisfied them with, and I won’t satisfy you with.
So, let me break it down for you one last time. I’m sorry that I’m not going to kiss your feet and tell you how you are a far superior writer than myself. I appreciated the review, but there were some things I disagreed on. You’re just going to have to get used to that. I’m not going to take a side in your argument with Hybrid, so you’ll have to get used to that too. But, like her, I guess you just can’t accept everyone not thinking you’re God’s gift to the world.
[Goodbye and I hope someday you stop being a horrible troll who tells people to kill themselves.]
And just where am I to have said that. Believe me, I take serious offense to people who even suggest such things.
I’d just like to remind everyone this guy is from Critics United, which has a thread dedicated to reposting review responses to mock and/or whine about these people being stupid trolls. It’s always the hypocrites who love calling us hypocrites.
So I think the lesson to take from this is that I can absolutely say whatever I want in reviews, because it’s not like anyone is actually holding me to any standard. I’m going to continue behaving in the way I think is ethical and not based on trying to convince people.
He’s actually whining about it in that very thread! “after posting a new story, I ended up being the new target in the fanbrat war of reviews during which one exchange from earlier on this thread was a part of. I gave both opposing reviewers a piece of my mind before choosing to no longer let my review page become their debate platform, and needless to say, both sides showed their colors at how immature and selfish they were.”
Truly, the rules are for other people.
I’m honestly surprised at what I read. Whenever I looked around the CU forum, I thought ZadArchie was a pretty reasonable person according to his posts; that’s why I find it difficult to believe he would write some of the things he said in the PM. I think he was probably heated up from the ongoing flame war with Hybrid. I truly feel sorry for the guy.
Well, this gets into why I like to be extremely public about things. It’s very easy to present yourself as the reasonable person if you just say that other people were crazy and annoying.
He’s been insisting both of us are just as bad since when CU first became aware Blaze was posting nonstory chapters back two months ago, complaining about PMs (as if either of us had ever contacted him) and concluding: “This situation has escalated into a childish tit-for-tat that I will not be involved in any further.“
I know. I read that post shortly after it was made. I can’t blame him from thinking like that, though, considering that he was being dragged into a war he never wanted to be a part of. Still, I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t have spoken like this if the whole conflict never happened. It’s quite sad.
Just to be perfectly clear, had you or Elmo ever contacted him before this PM exchange?
considering that he was being dragged into a war he never wanted to be a part of.
But that’s what I’m getting at. No, we weren’t PMing him. From the very start, when Blaze starts harassing him over her story being there, he decides it’s really our fault for making her mad at us enough to post the chapter.
I can absolutely blame him for deciding that Blaze yelling in PMs over him saying her chapter is against the rules means he gets to drag our names through the mud every chance he gets.
I see. Thank you for confirming with me.
Oops. I hit the post button due to a lack of attention before I could finish my message.
I think you may have said this before, but may I ask you exactly why you and Elmo do not like CU?
I can’t speak for him, but, this kind of thing.
At their best, they tend to be Lawful Evil – they’re selective about which rules they try to enforce and interpret the rules they do enforce as extremely as possible to justify getting stories taken down. The site bans interactive fiction including “youfic”, therefore they try to get all second-person fiction removed whether or not it’s interactive, sometimes arguing that it’s child abuse because “you” means it’s happening to the reader and children read stories. Meanwhile, SYOC stuff will get a pass if it’s done in the way they want, even though the rule’s about being “interactive” and not “soliciting reviews”. They tend to target particular types of fiction they don’t like (most notably gay stuff gets hit hard) and they also tend to go after people who get on their radar instead of just looking things over evenly.
And that’s them at their best. Half the time, it plays out like this instead, where a member doesn’t even care about enforcing the rules. He’s accusing us of “forcing beliefs down people’s throats” when this is a community that revolves around getting the story of anyone who disagrees with their interpretations deleted. Meanwhile, Blaze’s story hasn’t been re-added despite another person informing them there’s a nonstory chapter on it – it’s more important to complain really loudly that everyone else is stupid and he’s sick of this than enforce the rule about not posting nonstory chapters.
I see. Thank you for answering my question.
In fairness to him, it wasn’t him who refused to add it. He told them it needed updating because of the non-story chapter after they explained to them why it didn’t get readded.
He’s a member who went on to post stories to the thread, as are several others who’ve also posted in the violating-stories thread since then. So he’s not the only one to be avoiding it, but that just gets into why I dislike CU in general and not him as the one bad apple.
@Farla, A while back, I visited CU for it being the only other critique group around, and it only took me about ten minutes to get a very unsettled feeling from the group as a whole. The term I used back then was ‘the best and worstof lawful neutral,’ but honestly, best and worst of lawful evil fits them much, much better. The wholo homophobia thing they’ve got going on is pretty messed up, but their stance on actively trying to get stories removed is just damn disturbing for a group supposedly giving constructive criticism. It’s hard to be constructive when you’re threatening someone with a take-down request.
They aspire to Lawful Neutral. When you point out they’re reporting perfectly good stories, they say that oh, maybe it’s great story but it’s against the rules and they’re going to do their very best to get it removed from the site, because rules are rules, you know? Can’t make exceptions. And whatever happens as a result of them mass-reporting? Well, that’s out of their hands.
…but if those stories consistently stay up, as if their interpretation is bullshit and that isn’t the rule? Well, it’ll probably be deleted eventually, so they should keep harassing authors. And those other dozen rules? Well, they’re less fun to enforce, so…
I don’t. He could’ve admitted that “you’re just as bad as they are” was unfair hyperbole and apologized. He just dodged when repeatedly pressed about that assertion. I guess he’s… how did he put it? “[T]oo proud to admit [his] mistakes”, which might be why he can so easily make that judgment of others. He’s an expert, after all..
I’m a little late to the party, it looks like, but yeah. This guy’s a hypocrite and an ass, by the looks of it. I really, really, really hope I did not come across this way in my brief stint as the opposition. Some, probably, but at least I had the guts to admit to having been mistaken or had blown things out of proportion. This person just kept avoiding the issue like you said. I don’t even think St Elmo’s Fire was going for an admission that he was wrong about him so much as that he was exaggerating his side’s fault. Since when was calling someone out on bad behavior bad behavior? Yeesh.
As for much of the argument itself, St Elmo’s Fire even tried to dissuade banter on the forum. This goes in hand with my concern that it could be seen as trolling by a random bystander, but for a person who belongs to a group with a page specifically designated for doing just that, it’s a bit much.
Ah. That explains your forum posts. I’ll avoid posting anything anything further about Blaze in that thread from now on.
Wow.
Yeah, you probably kept it going a little too long, though I definitely get why – it was making my blood boil just reading through it here. I wish people who want to keep out of it would actually keep out of it instead of using their ‘neutrality’ as an excuse to attack both sides.
Honestly, the suggestion that we’re at fault for continuing to review as normal is both ignorant and insulting. I also fail to see how caving in to Blaze’s bullying would actually help the situation – it would just tell her that that kind of behaviour works.
Eats pizza