Pokeauthors Special Spotlight: Move Those Goalposts

The topic here was a pretty standard argument, but it ballooned tremendously because my opponent turned out to be a master goalpost-mover. Observe:

re: Your review to Galactic Hero
Apr 13RSBCS
A response to your review at https://www.fanfiction.net/r/12441303/

I thank you for your advice, and I thank you that you are trying to make me a better writer. However, if you are going to do something like this, PM me rather than do a review so that this stays between authors and readers don’t see this. This gives other readers a bad impression about me despite the idea.While you do have some insight, not everything you say can be applied the way I write my stories. I have seen writing both in the professional world and on fanfics like this written in similar styles. There is no magic formula for a perfect way to write a story.As Pokemon is a game before it became an anime, this story comes from the “Game” category of FF, not “Anime”. Believe me, I checked when I first did my Pokemon fanfictions. Also, the names of the Pokemon are proper names, same with the species they are. As such, I feel capitalization is done for them. Other writers for this genre do the same thing.

I understand I did an A/N in the middle of an action, and I understand some people don’t like when I interact with the characters. I am not doing it for them in the entirety.

I thank you again for reviewing, however I must ask you to never do this again with any of my stories. While I appreciate your feedback, this seems more offensive than you mean it to be. Please keep these critiques private, and only between the person you are trying to share them with. And be wary. Most writers won’t be as respectful as I am doing my best to be.

I wish you a good day, and the best of luck with your endeavors.

8h agoAll capitalization discussion goes here: https://www.fanfiction.net/topic/11834/55376155/1/Capitalization-Thread You would know this if you did me the basic courtesy of actually reading what I said.

[However, if you are going to do something like this, PM me rather than do a review so that this stays between authors and readers don’t see this. This gives other readers a bad impression about me despite the idea.]

I assure you, readers do not care. However, doing it this way lets other authors pick up on the tips as well.

[As Pokemon is a game before it became an anime, this story comes from the “Game” category of FF, not “Anime”.]

I know. That wasn’t what I was talking about.

Go to the PUBLISH tab on the side menu, click on MANAGE STORIES, and click on your story. About halfway down the page will be a section that says WORLD and shows a dropdown menu. By default it is set to “World: Any”. You can set it to “Anime” by clicking on it.

[however I must ask you to never do this again with any of my stories]

I won’t remember you. If you want this, you have to block me.

5h agoI read what you said, believe me. However, your method of converyance as well as what you say are rather poor and don’t speak well about you as a person. I don’t believe you understand that remaining anonymous is not happening. People will remember you, and it will not be for help. Because, in all blunt honesty, this isn’t help. Your advice goes against what I’ve been taught as a writer. You have your way of writing, and I have my own.If you are going to critique me, critique my story ONLY. Leave the actual writing work to my editors/beta readers. That’s their role, not yours.

And I assure you, readers do. They may not be in the majority, but reviews are a good first impression if people don’t want to look at the first chapter. So you’re review is not helping you or me or anyone else. You may habe good intentions, which is admirable, but the end does not always justify the means. These aren’t tips. Respectfully, you are merely saying my style of writing is not as good as yours, which is again offensive and shows you don’t care. Leave my writing alone.

Also, for others who put your advice on others stories like user Farla, I’d recommend you telling them to stop. I highly encourage you to stop doing this. If you want to critique writing, ask to be someone’s beta. But do not do it on reviews. It makes you sound obnoxious, and I doubt you want that.

Good day.

4h ago[Good day.]

I’m not going to spontaneously combust if you stop pretending to be polite, you know. Just talk to me straight, it’s less trouble for all of us.

[Your advice goes against what I’ve been taught as a writer. You have your way of writing, and I have my own.]

Then you were taught wrong. Incorrect grammar is not a style.

[Also, for others who put your advice on others stories like user Farla, I’d recommend you telling them to stop. I highly encourage you to stop doing this. If you want to critique writing, ask to be someone’s beta. But do not do it on reviews. It makes you sound obnoxious, and I doubt you want that.]

What do you think reviews are for, exactly?

3h agoI am actually doing my best to practice restraint, as I do want to combust. But I also know flaming someone only creates more problems. So I continue to be polite and respectful, even when someone isn’t to me. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

Unfortunately, grammar is not that easy to grasp. Each style of writing differs in its use and application. I have written similar works (but not fanfictions) for some Creative Writing classes, and the grammar is not commented on by anyone. You’re definition of grammar may be right, or it might not. Again, there is no magic formula for the perfect writing. I am still learning, and do not claim to be an expert. Not many of us do. So please respect our learning, and limit your critiques.

Reviews are there to help writers. However, personal attacks (or what can be percieved as a personal attack) are not their intentions. I do not understand why you think you won’t get responses like these when you review. I have no reason to trust what you say about my work. I don’t know you, you haven’t built up a repetoire with me, and suddenly critiquing like this makes you look like a know-it-all. No one likes someone who believes they know everything, nor will they listen even if that person is correct. You may be an English professor with a dozen degrees in Literature and Creative Writing, or maybe someone who lives in a hotel room. It won’t matter what you’re background is, because people won’t look there unless you have developed a trust with the person on the other side.

So I wish to pose this question: What do you believe your motives are for writing this review? And why do you feel the need to post it rather than going to read someone else’s work that coukd be way better?

2h ago[What do you believe your motives are for writing this review?]

To teach people how to write better. Most people react favorably to my reviews and do improve.

[I am actually doing my best to practice restraint, as I do want to combust. But I also know flaming someone only creates more problems. So I continue to be polite and respectful, even when someone isn’t to me.]

You’re not being respectful. Faking niceness is extremely rude, and stewing over your emotions also does nothing but create more problems. This would be easier for both of us if you were honest with your feelings.

[Reviews are there to help writers.]

No, they aren’t. Like any other public commenting feature, they’re there for other people to express their thoughts. If you find them helpful that’s great, but you cannot expect them to be at all times. The site and its constituents do not exist solely to serve your needs.

[I have written similar works (but not fanfictions) for some Creative Writing classes, and the grammar is not commented on by anyone.]

Then your creative writing class is letting you down. Mine did test grammar.

[or what can be percieved as a personal attack]

Ah, finally we get to the meat of the matter.

This is what it always comes down to, every single time. What I intend, and indeed what I actually say, is irrelevant. What matters is how the other person feels about it.

I don’t intend to make personal attacks. Grammar isn’t a style. Grammar is objective. While this means you should follow it, it also means that making a grammar mistake isn’t a personal failing and pointing it out isn’t a personal attack. I bear no ill will towards you for not having learned complex rules. However, I can’t control how people will react to my intentions. If you choose to perceive my words as a personal attack, that is not my fault and there is nothing I can do about it.

Might I ask further why you think you are an authority on teaching someone else, especially on this site? You have given me nothing credible to perceive you as an expert.

I am not faking niceness. This is how I would react in real life. Yes, I would be mad. Yes, I still am. But I am also being honest in that I wish to avoid hostility. You’re responses so far indicate you want hostility. Well I am sorry for not swearing your eyes off, but that is just not who I am. I ask you respect that about me.

Yes, reviews are there for people’s thoughts to be heard. And that is why they are helpful. But flaming, trolling, or even disregard for the story is not what they are for. Unfortunately, your review falls into the third category. Be specific if you want to help my writing. Vagueness or broad advice is not helpful.

Now we are simply attacking people because of something subjective. This is not a scientific paper or a persuasive essay. There is no objectivity here. If there is, it is quite slight. I please ask you keeo these comments to yourself. The faukt should lie with me, not my teachers. This is a disregard of that, and is attacking someone who has no control over how I write. Now you just don’t even care. I pity you.

If you understand how people will react, then you should know to change your approach. Because that reaction may mean people don’t heed your advice. People will only take in what is receptive to them, and often this is not receptive to a majority of writers. It shows little to no empathy, attacks parts that sometimes don’t truly take away from the storytelling, and again seems snobbish. Those that react well to your critique know you. We don’t. Telling a random person their faults without transmitting your intentions destroys the efficacy of what you are trying to achieve. How you present your argument is relevant, because it says so much about you. When that happens, your credibility is ignored. Your language speaks volumes about your person, and can either help or hinder your point.

1h ago[I am not faking niceness.]

Yes, you aren’t anymore. Thank you. But in the future, I would request that you please don’t tell people things like “good day” and “best of luck with your endeavors” when you don’t actually mean it.

[Might I ask further why you think you are an authority on teaching someone else, especially on this site? You have given me nothing credible to perceive you as an expert.]

You don’t have to be an expert to know basic rules. Google “English dialogue formatting”, please.

I find it interesting, however, that you think you are qualified to give me advice on critique when you clearly have no experience there; if you did, you would know that your advice does not work.

[But flaming, trolling, or even disregard for the story is not what they are for. Unfortunately, your review falls into the third category. Be specific if you want to help my writing. Vagueness or broad advice is not helpful.]

Define “disregard for the story”, please? I was being extremely specific in the problems I pointed out.

[Now we are simply attacking people because of something subjective. This is not a scientific paper or a persuasive essay. There is no objectivity here. If there is, it is quite slight. I please ask you keeo these comments to yourself. The faukt should lie with me, not my teachers. This is a disregard of that, and is attacking someone who has no control over how I write. Now you just don’t even care. I pity you.]

I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about here.

[Those that react well to your critique know you.]

Nope. They’re ordinary people I reviewed out of the blue just like you. You really shouldn’t make assumptions based on no evidence.

59m agoThat was me being honest, because I was taught to be polite and courteous to everyone. Perhaps you have not run into people who make it a habit to be polite. But I do. Every day. So I was not faking politeness, I was being genuine. You just failed to perceove because you built up an image about me that is flawed, same with me about you. You are only looking at a corner of the picture, not the whoke photo.

I could say the same thing to you. You regard these external sources as expert, where I find they are unable to be completely true. If you wish to make a point, make it yourself. Don’t rely on something else to tell others how to write. I have had experience crtiquing my friend’s own stories and giving honest. So I can turn this around and say you have no experience giving feedback. You do it strictly to random people. There’s no investment if you don’t know a person. I am sorry you think this, but I feel you are just as guilty.

You mss the forest for the trees. A story isn’t about looking at grammar and seeing how someone constructed a story when you are trying to enjoy a work. It is about seeing how the characters, the plot, the setting, and all those pieces fit together and share an experience through someone else’s eyes. Grammar, syntax, clauses, and structure are key in flow, but they are medium. If you want to look deep, you look at how things were conveyed. If you want to enjoy a story, look at the material. So in this regard, you do not even look at the story. You just look at the writer, and therin lies the fault.

Then I am afraid I can’t help you there.

True. I have no idea how you approach other people. But I will say I am not writing to please you, or follow your code like a soldier. I write because it is fun, it is engaging, it keeps me aware of the world around me, and I can connect to others. I don’t know why you write, and I won’t ask for a reason. But bear in mind: I am not a professional writer. And unless you give me something to base you off of, neither are you. But again, I don’t know that because I don’t know you. Just as you don’t know me. We both have had different experiences, different values, different perspectives. I am not you, so do not try and make me like you. I will be me. Let me be me.

20m ago[So I was not faking politeness, I was being genuine.]

No, you weren’t. Going through the motions of politeness doesn’t make something polite. You condescended to me constantly, refused to read or engage with what I said initially, and insulted my character. That doesn’t become polite just because you said “good day”.

[You regard these external sources as expert, where I find they are unable to be completely true.]

How are they not true?

[If you wish to make a point, make it yourself.]

You’re moving the goalposts. I can’t make a claim unless I’m an expert, but I can’t cite experts either?

[You mss the forest for the trees. A story isn’t about looking at grammar and seeing how someone constructed a story when you are trying to enjoy a work. It is about seeing how the characters, the plot, the setting, and all those pieces fit together and share an experience through someone else’s eyes. Grammar, syntax, clauses, and structure are key in flow, but they are medium. If you want to look deep, you look at how things were conveyed. If you want to enjoy a story, look at the material. So in this regard, you do not even look at the story. You just look at the writer, and therin lies the fault.]

“So I know this house is falling apart because I built it on a swamp, but would it kill you to appreciate the architecture?” Grammar is not optional. The best plot in the world is wasted if it can’t be understood.

[I write because it is fun, it is engaging, it keeps me aware of the world around me, and I can connect to others.]

Then why are you so concerned about what people will think based on my review?

According to their profile they plan to become a published author!

3 Comments

  1. CrazyEd says:

    So… was this just a really convoluted and snide way of saying “the grammar doesn’t matter if the story is good”?

    1. Mini-Farla says:

      No, I think it was a convoluted way of saying “I’m not listening to you.”

      1. CrazyEd says:

        Well, yes, but that’s why they’re not listening to you. It’s both, really.

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