So.
There’s no helping the actual story here, the point of this whole thing is to ask such deep questions as “but is it really rape, I mean, really?” So instead, let’s just pretend, like the author, that the core of this isn’t made up of festering rot. Let’s discuss the lure plot like it’s the real one instead.
Compressing the time would help a great deal. Instead of having most of a year pass while Rhine lazes around and talks about how everything’s pretty, have it be, oh, maybe three months, at the most. Maybe just one?
A big deal was made of the triple wedding, but it never amounted to anything, so when Rhine arrives, Cecily’s already there. She can be as far along on her pregnancy as the plot requires that way, instead of the book treading water for eight months. Rhine’s window is smashed during a storm early on and she tries to escape, and she makes various other attempts. There’s a strong focus on her exploring her environment – do you know, I still have no idea how big the house even is? She says there are many floors, but she only ever mentions three. And all we know of her garden exploration is that she wandered “aimlessly” and always got so turned around she ended up back at the house. Instead of that, she actually pays attention to her surroundings. And she’s better educated instead of the book saying it’s her brother who knows things, she just likes the pretty pictures.
Changing the plot from swooning prettily at things to escape gives a lot more to do. She tries to pick locks, figure out the elevator schedule, climbs trees when she’s outside, makes excuses to hang out in the kitchen so she can see when trucks come in…Oh, and the hologram is over the gate, not near the house. That’s why no matter how high she gets she can’t see an end. It’s basically a reverse ha ha. Yes, that’s the technical term, blame the French. And then blame the British for not changing the name when they adopted the concept. She figures it out because there’s a power surge that cause it to fail.
Do we need Gabriel? I don’t think we do. If for some reason he’s included, he actually helps her escape instead of being a selfish dick who wants her to stay for him.
Rhine’s character development is moving from wanting to escape to wanting to take the other girls with her when she escapes, even though it’ll make her own chances worse. When Jenna dies, she realizes she has to take Cecily.
It might be nice if evil mad scientist and the rapist were killed, but I don’t know how that would work. But if feasible, burn them.
There’s a number of things that can be done to try to make the gatherers thing make more sense. I have no interest in setting up valid apologia for the rapist, so let’s not bother with explaining how he doesn’t know. As for the rest of it, stealing girls is illegal, the brothel thing doesn’t happen, and the marriages aren’t to save the human race, they’re just the rich bastard equivalent of buying a prostitute for their son’s birthday. Most of the girls kidnapped are sold, then the minority left are killed so they can’t go to the police. They’re not used as servants because it’s too time consuming to keep kidnapped servants under guard like the wives. The gatherers aren’t everywhere, the majority of people will never encounter them, but they’re such a horrible fate that everyone’s terrified of them. Also, they specialize in grabbing mature girls, while younger ones like Cecily are those expected to actually get pregnant and are just bought straight from orphanages like servants.
Now, let’s consider the setting separately. The question of how people might react to this is a good one. Humans are very much based around the concept of having elders to pass on information and having a long period of learning. What would we do when we lost the former advantage and could no longer afford the latter?
Assuming lowered technology – let’s just say that there were no superbabies, this is some sort of disease and we can’t find a cure – how would we handle transitioning to a world where we have to breed like rats to keep going? You could get by with only the older ones getting pregnant, but the problem is the older teens are the most valuable. Maybe have them involved in administrative duties they can do while pregnant. Otherwise, you’d want the younger ones to get pregnant as soon as it was safe, because they’re not doing anything else useful.
A major issue is going to be replacement rate. How many pregnancies per woman are needed to maintain the population? If there’s low death, then only two pregnancies is pretty manageable, one at, say, fifteen and another at eighteen. Or, if the time of death can be predicted quite well, women might get pregnant ten months before it – if they’re dying either way, they might as well put the risk off until then, and it means not having to deal with any long term complications.
If there’s a high death rate, that’s when things get bad. As soon as kids can get pregnant, you get them pregnant. Bear in mind the girls are worth more than the kids, since they’re the ones who’ve had more than a decade spent raising them, so I’d expect they’d induce labor early, especially if the fetus is reaching full size. (you’d also make sure to feed the girls very well during their whole childhood) As I mentioned, eight month premies have pretty good survival rates, and that’s just an overall statistic. The larger a fetus is, the more likely it’s finished development, so inducing labor for full sized ones would be relatively safe. Five kids per girl would be more than double replacement rate, enough to make up for a lot of deaths.
Although people often forget this, it can’t be pointed out enough that you don’t need the twenty year olds to actually fuck little girls. Artificial insemination exists and it’s what we’d be using here.
If we’re capable of maintaining current technology, I think it’d be all artificial. You’d implant mostly female fetuses, because a population that’s, say, 70% female would need fewer total pregnancies to keep up the replacement rate no matter what it was. A lot of effort would be done about how to safely have twins or triplets or even more. If we’re at higher than normal technology, I think we’d cut humans out entirely and just start stuffing embryos into cows or something.
If we’ve lost the ability to maintain various technology, that’s were it starts going bad. We’d be left to rely on traditional methods to reshape ourselves. That is, we’d need to start selecting for girls who grew fast and hit puberty early, and depending on how desperate things get, causing puberty with hormones. Forget thirteen year old Cecily, we’d be aiming for single digit mothers. This would probably have some bad selection pressure on the babies as well, since the main limiting factor is the head so we’d be selecting for smaller brains that can fit through small pelvises. But the more technology fails, the bigger a proportion of the population is occupied keeping what’s left running, and the less you can afford to be picky.
You may notice this doesn’t have a plot. That’s because it’s just a very creepy setting. A story that took place with this as a backdrop would be suitably alien that it’d make a good future tale, but it doesn’t lend itself well to a story focusing on it because those sorts of stories either need to fix things (and for this to work as a setting it has to be that it’s necessary and people have to deal with it) or else, as we see in Wither, you get a self-centered piece of tripe about how it’s only bad when it affects the protagonist.
Now, as we know, the author’s on record as waffling about if this is rape, and her exact comments make it clear that she does have an opinion, it’s just she has enough shame left to not outright say she thinks it isn’t rape, or more likely, she doesn’t want to disagree with her readers who noticed it’s rape because she has no shame at all and wants the money to keep rolling in. One of the comments on facebook is interesting:
I am thoroughly engrossed in Fever. But I have learned to take these books in steady doses now. I read the first one in a few hours time. Bad idea. I couldn’t sleep that same night and spent weeks with the feeling of my skin crawling. Fever is going much better. Just a very difficult subject for me to grasp but one at the same time that I cannot ignore. Do you have a problem with someone having a love/hate relationship with these books?
To which she responds that everyone has their “personal reaction”, which is weaselwords for saying she has no idea what’s wrong with them.
What this suggests is that some fans have a much better grasp of how fucked up this is, though there’s also people talking about poor Linden-chan. So let’s check out the fanfic. Do the authors show greater awareness than the writer of the book? Do they seem infected by the sexism? Currently, there’s seven stories. Going from oldest to newest:
7. Being Brave Jenna oneshot. “I want to be the girls in these books. Tragic and tortured and caught up in a desperate struggle.”
This is an odd one, and as it has only a tenuous connection to what Jenna mentions about the books she reads, likely is more a reflection of the author’s feelings. Part of it seems reasonable – Jenna wishes to live in a world where there was room to worry about things other than morality.
The other part of it is But then their knight comes through at the last moment, and they remember that they are girls. They remember that they have hearts. and We are brave. I like to think that. Locked up in our tower, we have fierce hearts and the kind of power that starts wars. But we’re too late. There are no men to come and set us free, or to love us. in which she laments the lack of magic healing cock. This seems to be being presented uncritically by the story, which makes a degree of sense given it’s not a reasonable extrapolation of Jenna’s behavior and so almost certainly is more of an insight into the author’s head.
The category is not making a good showing here. It is, however, still doing significantly better than the book in that it’s acknowledging the rapist does not qualify as one of those saviors and that they’re trapped in a terrible situation they need to escape.
6. The Girl Who Screamed The title is self-explanatory.
You might think a focus on the bad portions of the world would be an improvement, but the book was quite happy to say the kidnapping part was horrible. This one says the girl is Jenna’s sister. She worries about how she’ll handle living with Jenna gone, then discovers she won’t have to.
I close my eyes, welcoming the calming promise of death with open arms, knowing I’ll never have to sell myself for a meal again.
This begs the question of if the book is skewing viewpoints or if it’s that people who already agree with the book are just the ones who would go write fanfic for it. Tip – people who would rather have sex for money than die don’t usually appreciate you choosing “die” for them just because you think they’re ruined.
5. O Jerusalem Jerusalem Korey is a feral child, a street-rat in the flooded Cradle of dead New Orleans, too busy about surviving another day to worry about the next five years. And then…an unexpected offer. Please R&R
This one is what the book should have been. The character is selfish, but it’s explained why and in a way that makes it clear she does have feelings for others, just not the luxury to act on them. Instead of being kidnapped, she’s offered a deal to become the guy’s wife, which lowers the degree it’s fucked up quite a lot. Hardly perfect, but you read this and it just seems like a regular story, not an uncomfortable look into the author’s skull.
4. In Another Life “And in another life I would make you stay…” Songfiction. Rhine thinking about Linden. Forgive the shortness.
About what you’d expect, but still displaying a better grasp of things than the book: Even though he kept me captured, I know he didn’t think of it that way, nor will he understand why I ran way. is a more reasonable sort of sympathy than the book’s endless dodge around the fact.
3. Sophisticated Wren Blossom is the beautiful daughter of two wealthy first generations. So she’s blindsided when she and her little sister Leaf are kidnapped and married off to a wealthy young man. All because he didn’t want to marry some “filthy animal” off the street.
This is an interesting one, because it’s very close to a repeat of the book, down to the guy being nice enough to take no for an answer, and yet it does manage to be somewhat better in that it has the main character considering this really weird and significantly better in that the guy isn’t going after her little sister at all. It’s all done in accordance to the usual fanfic tropes, which may not be perfect but still have a better grasp of morality than what we saw in Wither. Probably going toward kidnapper apologia, though.
2. Blossom and Burn A continuation of the story until Fever comes out. Gabriel and Rhine are on their way north to find Rowan. Switched to third person, may move back and forth between Rhine/Gabriel’s story and Linden’s.I will consider suggestions. A teetery T rating.
The bit about Linden sounds quite bad, but the single chapter doesn’t contain that. Instead it involves Rhine having a nightmare about Vaughn raping her and then a narrative rant about how Gabriel can’t understand what it’s like to be female in a world like this, which puts it well ahead of the book.
1. Whimper Death is imminent. I’m in a situation much worse. Escape is impossible, but I have to try- for both myself and my little sister. My name is Wren, and this is my story. Read and review PLEAAASE!
I sat down in front of the vanity. I felt sick, but I spoke anyway. “My name is Lawrence. And if you think I’m going to make your time working here easy, you better think twice.”
This one has only two chapters, so it’s hard to say, but the protagonist is aggressive and hating those around her, so there it’s doing better than the book.
Oddly, there are no M-rated fics, although the one with the rape scene should be. If the series becomes more popular and gets more fic, it may be interesting to see what develops.
Finally, after all the other stuff we’ve trudged through this month, I’ll recommend Chain as a story with similar subject matter that is extremely disturbing in an intentional way instead. Extremely, extremely disturbing. If the opening section upsets you, stop reading because it gets a lot worse, but you should read it if you’re at all capable of doing so because it’s a very well done story.
You know there’s a problem when standard fannish slavefic is more thoughtful and sensitive than your published novel.
Reccing Chain is so complicated! So excellent, but so traumatizing. “You should really read this but don’t feel like you have and don’t drop it too early because it gets so much better than it looks at first but stop reading if you’re having trouble handling it because it just keeps getting worse!” Also known as the best fic that no one will ever read twice.
You know there’s a problem when standard fannish slavefic is more thoughtful and sensitive than your published novel.
You know, if you think about it…a lot of fanfic is being written by the younger generation, while published books are the solid province of older writers selling to still older publishers beholden to even older bosses. So while it’d be nice if no one was writing Wither, I think ultimately I’d rather the current establishment produced Wither than the upcoming one. Terrible rape-filled romances have been on the shelves forever. Fanfic is a sign of change and it’s an encourager of more change.
and I totally read it twice. it was a mistake but I did so I win.
To be honest, I came pretty close. I read the whole thing straight through in one night even though I had to stay up until literally three in the morning, then the next day I skimmed it fairly thoroughly to see what I’d missed due to drowsiness. The following week was not a good week.
Massive spoiler alert for anyone who hasn’t read it yet –
When PM came back after Jack released her, I almost pressed the back button because I just kept thinking, “Oh. It’s that kind of story, isn’t it?”
And I pushed on because if it was you wouldn’t have recommended it.
Well that is probably the best thing I’ve seen in a good while.
Yeaaaah that part probably loses some readers who haven’t picked up on the clues and don’t know the author or whoever they saw it recced by well enough to suspect that something’s off. Which is a shame because the pay off is so close at that point.
The thing was, I kept noticing all these subtle (or maybe not so subtle) things that made it seem that way, and at the start, I was fully expecting some sort of subversion. How could she be doing anything else but passing coded messages with those gibberish letters? After that one mention of her throwing up a while back, it was really obvious she was pregnant*. But the thing is, a lot of it was from earlier chapters.
But then it went on for such a long time with all the lengthy and descriptive rape scenes. Even though I knew it was from Jack’s perspective, sometimes it felt like they were written more for author appeal than any sort of narrative purpose. Eventually it came to a point where a more disturbed writer might suggest that Jack was “redeeming” himself – giving her insignificant privileges (I’ll still chain you up and rape you, but at least you’re not wearing a collar! I’m such a nice person!) and finding violent rape unpleasant… I just kept thinking, oh no, God. Is this supposed to be a heel face turn?
And then when he let her go… I just kept crossing my fingers and hoping that she’d come back late at night and stab him in his sleep or something. But she didn’t. When she came back and it seemed like everything was going to be good and wonderful, and my hopes weren’t high enough for any sort of proper gambit.
If I had come across this story myself, I would have thought that all of the really clever buildup was actually accidental at this point. By then there were a lot of signs that suggested that this was actually a straightforward stockholm syndrome sort of story.
I’m glad it was recommended rather than me stumbling upon it. I wouldn’t have gotten to the end otherwise.
* In fiction, if you ever see a female throwing up anywhere ever, and there is even a remote possibility that she has had sex at any point in her life, she is pregnant. Even if the story takes place on a ship or there’s a flu going around, she’s pregnant. No exceptions.
Hm. That’s an interesting view. It didn’t ping as that for me at all – PM coming back was a “oh no the ending will be super depressing” not “oh no they’re going to be in love even though Jack is obviously evil” thing, and the bit about Jack thinking that violent rape sure is wrong was just hammering in how awful he is. There’s a lack of the narrative support and it’s a very tight POV, which I associate with “the views of this character do not reflect the author but it’d take up too much time to write ‘and he was wrong to do this’ after every line”.
On the other hand, I’m not sure if that’s just because I tend to assume people are in agreement about things being fucked up unless the only option is it being the author’s viewpoint. I mean, with Wither, without the author’s actual comments I wouldn’t have gotten the it’s-not-rape thing, and would just have stuck on that the author was handling it really badly.
I used to think along those lines too, but I’ve started to scrutinize author intent a lot more closely after I read that one webcomic…
It was this sort of Narnia-ish fantasy story about this magic raccoon kid who wants to be an adventurer. Even though there were a lot of Christian themes, they came off as general, rather than specific, and I could appreciate the messages without associating them with any particular religion. I didn’t think much of it at the time, other than that maybe the cartoonist might be religious him or herself, since the comic used Christianity specifically rather than a made up religion.
Then I went to the blog and I found out that the cartoonist, on top of being highly xenophobic, was a raging misogynist* who blamed every wrongdoing in society on liberal governments, liberal scientists and feminists.
I was pretty surprised, so I went back through the comic and started to pick up little things where he might actually be suggesting all his crazy, and they started to add up rather quickly.
Whenever a sensitive issue’s brought up in a story now, I can’t help but wonder if the narrative is saying more about the author than the author might wish to say. In this case, I was definitely reading too much into it and was most likely seeing it differently from how it was intended.
* Among other things, I recently saw something about the average woman’s lifespan being longer than a man’s lifespan because women are oppressing men.
I oscillate back and forth at times. One of the really confusing things is that people who are huge assholes usually learn other people don’t want to hear it, so they can actually be better at hiding it. (And some will deliberately try to write something to sucker in and convert people who don’t support their views.)
It’s kind of like how people might say Obama’s well-spoken without meaning to imply they’re shocked someone like him can string a sentence together, but if they’re going on about him being not an American and Muslim, they’re really just bothered by his race. The latter group knows what the obvious signs are because they get called on them all the time, so they learn to go underground.
It probably also helped that you were familiar with Coz’s writing and knew she had a better-than-fandom-average record with portrayal of female characters. Although that same familiarity probably also contributed to your fear that the ending would be hopeless and soul-crushing anyway.
(I knew right away it was because she was a spy who hadn’t finished her job yet. I was actually more worried BEFORE she came back, because I thought he might get a semi-redemptive death. It still tore me up because oh no, PM, you don’t have to do that, no one could possibly expect you to do that, run away! But I was also really proud of her and eagerly anticipating Jack’s horrible death.)
That mostly just tipped me off to the fact there was probably way more going on than it looked on the surface. I’d have read it by an unknown author too, with only a bit more trepidation. But then, I tend not to assume that stuff unless I’m primed to somehow. I’m not that fast on the uptake, I just read a lot. Like after the third helmsman fic that made it about true love, I started to notice that jesus fuck there’s something wrong with people. And after the billionth Eridan is so loyal and protecting Feferi in this AU.
I read like half of Piers Anthony’s books when I was a kid before having the slightest sense there was something weird, and I never did figure it out until other people actually pointed out the absolutely everything he wrote ever. So, probably I’m wrong in my assumptions much of the time, but better to assume the best than the worst?
Oh wow. I was almost going to suggest doing a Piers Anthony book a while back, but then it’s been done and it’s also a little like shooting fish wrapped in cellophane.
Holy fuck, what was up with the all-female football where women get naked spells cast on them (for no reason), and that one woman who got electric nipple clamp torture. And then outright stating that men all have this subconscious desire to rape women, and they are the stronger sex because they can suppress it.
And that dialogue…
I never even read that one! That’s the amazing thing about it, he’s written a billion books and they’re all fighting for what can be most fucked up. For me, it’s the seething entitlement – he’ll go on about how he wants to fuck some woman but she won’t, or she has an IQ above 5 which ruins it, or he’ll go on about how she’s hideous for being over the age of twenty.
Was that from Xanth? I’ve never actually read it, but now I kind of really want to…
… For all the wrong reasons.
Have you ever read “The Child Garden”? It’s a science fiction novel that won the 1990 Arthur C. Clarke award. I just borrowed it from the library after seeing it mentioned at the Experience Music Project hall of fame, and the introduction alone has already set it up as being everything “Wither” should have been.
It has the exact same basic conceit (curing cancer with a virus has decimated the human lifespan), done better (no mystery about the cause, believable explanation of the mechanism, virus is super-contagious and no cure has yet been found, men and women both die in their mid-thirties, the children are educated as quickly as possible with viruses that plant information in the brain and put to useful work). Also, no fear of a fancy male love interest, since the teenaged protagonist is lesbian and lives in terror of being discovered and brainwashed straight with a potentially fatal dose of brain viruses.
I’m only a few pages in, and already wondering if DeStefano ripped this book off, deliberately or in a more innocent case of “read it when I was young enough to unconsciously add it to the primordial brain soup”.
Oh yeah, I remember that!
Hm. I always wonder about conservative-seeming authors and what they read. My knee-jerk reaction is that she can’t possibly because that was full of lesbians and worldbuilding and stuff, but plenty of people must encounter that and just don’t care/pay attention/see the point. And it’d fit with the way genetic engineering and virus are spoken about interchangeably – as well as the idea of an initial perfect generation, in that book people who already had cancer at the time of infection became immortal.
I’m not sure the two are really connected, though, since I can’t remember anything plotwise that’s shared between the two and the world of The Child Garden is actual scifi and not whatever the hell Wither is and as I write that I remember the series is called The Chemical Garden so okay, I think we can go with that being a major influence.
It’s really sad when A Time Of Darkness, a book aimed at nine to twelve year olds is better written than a book meant to be a bridge between adult and kid’s lit. ATOD actually had it’s female protagonist be just as useful as the male co-protagonist. The dystopia kind of made no sense but at least it tried.