“Let’s say the two are walking down the street. They’re conversing about some topic or another. And someone overhears her calling her master “mother/mom.” I just thought that would be weird.”
This one went all over the place, but the main topic of discussion was whether it made sense for pokemon to call humans “Master”.
Mason LeeA response to your review at https://www.fanfiction.net/r/12545715/
Hi! You reviewed my story a few days ago, the first day it was posted! I was a little discouraged when I saw the orange “reviews” link by my story, assuming it was a random person saying “Good chapter,” or something along those lines. But no! You put effort into your review! I’m glad of that! Please check out the story again, I just posted the third chapter and topped it off at 10,000 words!
Most of what you mentioned was logic or story-based, so I will explain here.
I meant that a virus wouldn’t discriminate. It wouldn’t have mercy. E Coli wouldn’t just be floating around in your nacho cheese and suddenly decide “You know what? That guy’s a democrat. I like democrats! I won’t do anything to him!” It might seem silly, but I was aiming for a different perspective on my story summary. I didn’t take into account the actual biological side of the summary; only the moral one.
I don’t quite understand your comment. [So pokemon aren’t people?] Did you assume pokemon took the role of humans in this world?
She refers to her master as “master” because she holds great respect for her taking her in. It down’t make sense with the current chapters up, but it will in the future.
secs ago[I meant that a virus wouldn’t discriminate. It wouldn’t have mercy. E Coli wouldn’t just be floating around in your nacho cheese and suddenly decide “You know what? That guy’s a democrat. I like democrats! I won’t do anything to him!” It might seem silly, but I was aiming for a different perspective on my story summary. I didn’t take into account the actual biological side of the summary; only the moral one.]
Okay, but then you should have used that as an example. “A virus doesn’t care who you are or what you believe” makes a lot more sense both literally and thematically than “a virus doesn’t care if you do things that affect your immune system”. How is exercising or being pregnant a moral stance?
[I don’t quite understand your comment. [So pokemon aren’t people?] Did you assume pokemon took the role of humans in this world?]
In the quote I was referring to, you used “people” to mean “humans”, and classed pokemon as a separate category. That implies you’re saying pokemon aren’t people. This is accurate if they’re nonsapient animals, but in this story they are sapient, so they should be considered people.
[She refers to her master as “master” because she holds great respect for her taking her in. It down’t make sense with the current chapters up, but it will in the future.]
“Master” carries way more connotations than just great respect. It carries connotations of subservience, that you are lesser than your master and exist to do his bidding. Even if she is that spectacularly messed up in the head, why does *he* allow it? If I adopted a street urchin and she referred to me as “master”, I would be extremely creeped out and insist she called me something else. This makes him look like a power-tripping egomaniac.
29m agoTo your last paragraph: This isn’t the only layer to why she calls her trainer her master. I was hoping you would get some sort of point, but I’ll explain all of it.
You are correct in saying that she is of a lower quality than her master. She is a defected pokémon. No, not like your incorrectly EV trained ones. This lucario can’t even use aura, even if in the cannon it is stated that all pokémon can master some level of aura. In a surgical accident, she can no longer use her voice. Her hand spikes are underdeveloped while her chest spike is cracked, and later snapped off, causing her to grind the metal stump down to a smooth surface. But her brain was many, many times the intelligence of a normal lucario. She was more logical, smart, careful with her actions and less rash.
Every time a trainer battled her in the wild they ran away due to her disabilities. You can, through the process of breeding, procreate another perfect lucario, but trainers didn’t know the gender of the pokémon until they caught it. And, due to the known gender ratio of lucario, they assumed that she was most likely a male. Finally, a trainer took her in when she was around 12 years old. I’m basing this logic off of:
“Children and adolescents’ minds are easily re-wired due to the development of their brains.”
And since her brain was growing faster this effect was profound. She associated her trainer with safety, love, and fun. She felt that she needed to pay all respect to her master, for being caught was an honor for her. Again, due to her disabilities, and the fact that she was as smart as a human her age, she was instituted as a sibling to the trainer’s son. She grew up in a household where her role was that of a sister. She became more human than pokémon, the only attributes of a lucario that stayed were her strength and a keen “sixth sense” like most canines seem to have.
On a final note, her master is a woman. Read closely in the flashback of chapter 1.
I just looked at your second review. I forgot to mention this, but she is more human than lucario. She, indeed, has five fingers, including an opposable thumb.I also fixed the dialogue error you mentioned.
secs ago[She associated her trainer with safety, love, and fun. She felt that she needed to pay all respect to her master, for being caught was an honor for her.]
But *why did her trainer encourage this way of thinking*? You say trainer treated her like her own child. Put this in human terms: if you adopted a crippled orphan and they chose to call you “master” because they were indoctrinated to believe they were worthless and inferior to everyone else, would you let that go without comment?
Let’s say the two are walking down the street. They’re conversing about some topic or another. And someone overhears her calling her master “mother/mom.” I just thought that would be weird.To put it in the simplest terms, it’s like that adopted, crippling orphan calling you mom/dad the first day in the house, and you insist on that adopted, crippling orphan calling you by your first name, or, Mr. last name. I have never, in the anime or in the fanfiction I read encountered a pokemon that casually referred to their master by their first name, or Mr. last name.
secs ago[Let’s say the two are walking down the street. They’re conversing about some topic or another. And someone overhears her calling her master “mother/mom.” I just thought that would be weird.]
So? If you choose to reinforce your daughter’s crippling internalized ableism just to avoid other people thinking you’re “weird”, you’re a selfish monster. If she really cares about Ezra, she should be willing to make such a minor sacrifice for the sake of her self-esteem.
[To put it in the simplest terms, it’s like that adopted, crippling orphan calling you mom/dad the first day in the house, and you insist on that adopted, crippling orphan calling you by your first name, or, Mr. last name.]
No, it’s the reverse. “Mr. Surname” is more formal than “Dad”, and “Master” is more formal than either. There are in fact tons of stories about adopted kids transitioning from calling their adopted parents by stiff formal titles to calling them “Mom/Dad”, because most parents want that.
[I have never, in the anime or in the fanfiction I read encountered a pokemon that casually referred to their master by their first name, or Mr. last name.]
Meowth refers to Jesse and James by their names.
However, that’s missing the point, which is that the franchise does not think critically or logically about this at all, and actively avoids bringing up edge cases like this where it would have to take a firm stance on whether or not pokemon are fully sapient. The truth of is, Pokemon is not well-written. I want to encourage you to think more critically about the setting and issues presented therein instead of just copying them.
Ezra really cares about her master. It’s the other way around. She cares for her master’s self-esteem more than her master actually cares about her own self-esteem. Ezra doesn’t want to be more of a disappointment than she already is, even though her master doesn’t think of her that way.If I just adopted a child, and they kept thinking that they were less than me, I would want them to call me by the other two preferred names.
Meowth is a whole new level. He’s more of a sidekick/sibling to Jessie and James.
And about the… anthropomorphic? Sapient? Human-like? I don’t even know what to call it anymore. Certain pokemon hold more attributes towards and with humans than others. Some genetically, some psychically, and some physically. I won’t take the time to list them all, and I generally don’t care about the ones that I won’t use in my stories. In my opinion, Pokemon should have thought this through before creating the pokemon. Things like yamask and kadabra can come from humans, even though they hold no resemblance to us aesthetically.
My idea is, like a true ecosystem, is that some pokemon take higher roles than others. Or to have a rivalry, or predator-prey relationship. This is extremely prominent in the relationship between sepiviper and zangoose. I would like, in a perfect world, for pokemon to have roles that aren’t definitive but change overtime, much like our ecosystem.
The pokemon in question, however, do take a human-like stance. Lucario, gardevoir, and just about every pokemon that can take on human characteristics is considered human-like. I won’t go into “Anthro” lucario and gardevoir, since they’re already bipedal. And I really find the notion of anthropomorphic pokemon that should be four-legged really, really unsettling, since they have no way of communicating to us verbally or psychically outside of repeating their names, and phonemes in their names. Some pokemon that are four-legged are psychic, and for this I’d like to think of them as “Cheshire-cat”- like pokemon. Pokemon that can talk to humans but hold no resemblance to them.
Then there’s the pokemon that should, in all laws of nature, hold no aspect of their biology to speak. This goes for most rock, steel, and bug-types. Some are dotted in others, like grimer and muk.
I will continue this later, I have to go. I’ll be back in a few hours.
I felt I had hit a wall here so Farla ghostwrote the next response:
secs ago[If I just adopted a child, and they kept thinking that they were less than me, I would want them to call me by the other two preferred names.]
Why does the fact the kid thinks they’re worthless change what you want them to call you? And why aren’t you concerned about the part where your precious, beloved child thinks they’re worthless and doing something about that?
[My idea is, like a true ecosystem, is that some pokemon take higher roles than others.]
That’s not a true ecosystem. It’s the complete opposite, a nonsense power-trip social construct humans made up. Lions hunt wildebeest, but wildebeest kill lions when they get the chance, they don’t call them Master and accept lions are superior. Lions don’t call us Master because we shoot them. We don’t call tigers Master because they’re crazy good at killing us. Even if the food chain was a clear thing where one animal always beats the other (and it is not, not at all) that still doesn’t make them “higher” in any sense. Similarly, looking more like humans doesn’t make an animal “higher”. We’re not the perfect creature that everything else is trying to be. Nothing works like that. (Not even Pokemon does – it’s the dratini line first said to be as smart as humans, it’s Meowth who learns to talk, it’s chatot that can repeat human words and not one of the many monkey pokemon…)
When you spend a lot of time explaining why it’s important the child-pokemon uses Master, it sounds like it’s really because you really want humans to be called Master. Even if you wanted formal language, there’s many ways to indicate distance and deference, like just saying Mr./Ms. rather than something that shows up in kink fic.
I’m not focused on the social construct. It’s not like a high-school social classification system. I’ll… I’ll put it in the most crude term.Pokemon that are more animal like than human act like animals. Like in an ecosystem.
Pokemon that are more human like than animal act like humans. Look at the link below and read the paragraph under “Physiology.” I know this isn’t Pokemon, it’s actually the Monster Hunter franchise. But this is the closest, most understandable solution I could relate. This will tie in later in future fictions.
If you prefer not to use the link, I’ll explain here. Some human-like pokemon choose to stay either in the wild or in the city, taking roles of humans such as chefs, barkeeps, cart salesmen, and other various jobs. They first have to register with a special system to prevent their capture, something I won’t go into detail right now. They also have to pass several literacy and verbal classes and tests, if they don’t know English already.
(dot) com/wiki/Felyne
secs ago[Pokemon that are more animal like than human act like animals. Like in an ecosystem. Pokemon that are more human like than animal act like humans.]
And that is the false social construct, the idea that intelligence/personhood/worth is based on “does this thing look like me personally?” There are lots of stupid monkey species. There are lots of smart parrot species. Making a story where a harmful lie in the real world is objectively true in yours is gross.
[Some human-like pokemon choose to stay either in the wild or in the city, taking roles of humans such as chefs, barkeeps, cart salesmen, and other various jobs.]
That’s so wildly different from Pokemon canon that I, again, do not understand why you can’t write this as original fiction. Pokemon not acting like humans or integrating into human society is rather fundamental to the franchise. This would make far more sense with elves or orcs or catgirls.
Just wondering: I saw that you added my story to a… tag? I forgot what it was called, but it was a collection of stories that had a similar topic/setting/likeness to others. And… I saw that there was staff for it. How do you become… a staff member of one of those?Also, I would refrain to talking to me about issues on my story or stories with me UNLESS it would actually help the quality of my story or stories, like correct grammar. I’m sensing a pointless game of “logic catch” between us, where the only way it would end is if someone ends it themselves or the story or stories become perfect, which is virtually impossible. This is in no direct or purposeful way meant to insult you or your work, but no story is without it’s flaws. Every work of fan-made fiction and original fiction has, more or less, plot holes, errors, incorrect grammar, impossible universes, logic loops, boring character, meaningless detail, some form of shoehorned conflict, and dialogue choppiness. While half of those can be eliminated and/or corrected within one PM, the other half is an argument of what is supposed to be in a fan-made universe, which, in my opinion, is whatever the original author decides.No.
Writer.
Is.
Perfect.
And that’s okay.But I’m not discouraging you reviewing stories, I’m trying to spare the time arguing. In fact, I encourage your first comments on new stories.
I actually like your way of thinking and the way you review stories, but due to aforementioned statements on your Bio Page, I would find it rude to even ask you to beta read my stories. However I would request your first impression input on the first chapter on any interesting fan-made fiction I make, since your input is incredibly helpful.
secs ago[what is supposed to be in a fan-made universe, which, in my opinion, is whatever the original author decides.]
No, it isn’t. Fanfiction is work based on a source material. If your story is not canon-compliant, you have failed at writing fanfiction, and that’s a valid criticism. This is far from nitpicking over minor imperfections; this is a major error that will confound your audience. The entire point of fanfiction is that it draws on a shared collective understanding; if you suddenly say that actually that understanding doesn’t apply and we need to pay attention to your completely different worldbuilding instead, your readers are fully justified in being frustrated at you. This site is called Fanfiction dot Net for a reason. It is for fanfiction, not original fiction you splashed with a coat of fandom paint because you like the aesthetic. When I look for stories here, I am looking for stories that directly engage with the source material and its setting.
You must ask yourself: why did you choose to write fanfiction instead of original fiction? What can you do with Pokemon that you can’t do with any other setting? (Why must they be pokemon and not elves or orcs or catgirls or…) What story are you trying to tell?
They appear to have stopped responding after this.
You must ask yourself: why did you choose to write fanfiction instead of original fiction?
This is completely off-topic but all I could hear when I was read this was David Byrne going, “AND YOU MAY ASK YOURSELF: WHY DID YOU CHOOSE TO WRITE FANFICTION?” I like to imagine he’s really into Pokemon fanfic.
Why try so hard to remove all lucario qualities?
I have a Lucario gijinka character. His Aura Spheres are always ineffective, but the party uses him mainly as a detector. Is it bad to have just one ability? A disabled lucario has the potential to be interesting.
I have never, in the anime or in the fanfiction I read encountered a pokemon that casually referred to their master by their first name, or Mr. last name.
The author is mistaken here. Having watched a lot of the anime, I specifically remembered an episode (the title turned out to be Island of the Giant Pokemon) where pokemon did refer to their trainer by his first name. Most of Ash’s pokemon were separated from him so the anime subtitled their conversations, and they referred to Ash as, simply, Ash. Conversely, Team Rocket’s pokemon (excluding Meowth) referred to their trainers as ‘Master’.
I think it’s also commonly accepted that Pikachu’s Pi-pi-pii! vocalization refers to Ash (i.e. Sa-to-shi) directly. No honorifics there!
It is, but I’m sure you can find someone who believes it should be “properly” translated as “Satoshi-sama”.
Urgh I had to write that.