“Xir”. Also, possible Ash-betrayal relative. It almost makes me wish I did this every day just so I could track the evolution of this.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11756145/1/Ash-and-Serena-s-First-Date-The-Real-One
Script format continues to be banned.
You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, so you shouldn’t capitalize words like pokemon or pikachu or charizard. The only time you should capitalize it is if you’re using it as the pokemon’s name, ie, Ash’s pikachu is called Pikachu. This is because you only capitalize when it’s a proper noun, which are the names of places or things. Similar reasoning should be applied to any other words you’re thinking of capitalizing, like telephone or trainer. Or professor.
Three reviews.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11756187/1/Pokemon-Season-1-Adventures-on-Kanto-and-Orange-Island
[Pokemon, mysterious creatures with amazing powers that lives in this, and by that I mean the anime world, people and pokemon have live together in peace and harmony. Some spent time together, others like to travel around the world, and others like to battle. Is an amazing world, we must admit, but sadly it only exist the anime world. Since little, I always being a pokemon fan, and just like any other fan, I wish I could be a pokemon trainer, have my own pokemon and adventure through the world, fighting gym leader’s, other trainers, collect badges and become a champion, but I’m realistic, not matter what I do, I can’t just be transported into the pokemon world….Or so I though. ]
Your grammar is terrible. Get a beta reader.
Zero.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11756210/1/That-s-Not-Science-That-s-Love
A drabble is a word for something written and edited to be precisely 100 words.
You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, so you shouldn’t capitalize words like pokemon or pikachu or charizard. The only time you should capitalize it is if you’re using it as the pokemon’s name, ie, Ash’s pikachu is called Pikachu. This is because you only capitalize when it’s a proper noun, which are the names of places or things. Similar reasoning should be applied to any other words you’re thinking of capitalizing, like telephone or trainer. Or professor.
Dialogue is written as “Hello,” she said or “Hello!” she said, never “Hello.” She said or “Hello.” she said or “Hello,” She said or “Hello” she said. The only exception to this is if the next sentence doesn’t contain a speech verb, which is a verb describing how the dialogue is said. (“Speak” is not a speech verb.) In that case it’s written as “Hello.” She grinned, never “Hello,” she grinned or “Hello,” She grinned or “Hello.” she grinned. Note that something isn’t a speech verb just because it’s a sound you make with your mouth, so generally stuff like laughed or giggled is in the second category. Furthermore, if you’re breaking up two complete sentences it’s “Hi,” she said. “This is it.” not “Hi,” she said, “this is it.” or “Hi,” she said “this is it.” And if you’re breaking up a sentence in the middle, it’s “Hi. This,” she said, “is it.” The same punctuation and capitalization rules apply to thoughts, except you don’t use quotation marks or any other ones with thoughts.
One.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11756250/1/The-Grand-Master
You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, so you shouldn’t capitalize words like pokemon or pikachu or charizard. The only time you should capitalize it is if you’re using it as the pokemon’s name, ie, Ash’s pikachu is called Pikachu. This is because you only capitalize when it’s a proper noun, which are the names of places or things. Similar reasoning should be applied to any other words you’re thinking of capitalizing, like telephone or trainer. Or professor.
Semicolons should only ever be used when connecting two complete sentences and even then almost never.
Wes’ total disinterest in the whole process makes it hard to take the battle particularly seriously. There obviously are stakes, in that Michael’s losing his pokemon, but he could walk away at any point and try to think up a new, better plan (or just train more) so it feels more like him being an idiot than an actual desperate battle on his part. As does how he keeps doing the same thing over and over rather than, say, trying to intervene in the battle himself to block the balls or ordering his pokemon to attack Wes or anything.
Zero.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11756367/1/Parallel-Battles
Dialogue is written as “Hello,” she said or “Hello!” she said, never “Hello.” She said or “Hello.” she said or “Hello,” She said or “Hello” she said. The only exception to this is if the next sentence doesn’t contain a speech verb, which is a verb describing how the dialogue is said. (“Speak” is not a speech verb.) In that case it’s written as “Hello.” She grinned, never “Hello,” she grinned or “Hello,” She grinned or “Hello.” she grinned. Note that something isn’t a speech verb just because it’s a sound you make with your mouth, so generally stuff like laughed or giggled is in the second category. Furthermore, if you’re breaking up two complete sentences it’s “Hi,” she said. “This is it.” not “Hi,” she said, “this is it.” or “Hi,” she said “this is it.” And if you’re breaking up a sentence in the middle, it’s “Hi. This,” she said, “is it.” The same punctuation and capitalization rules apply to thoughts, except you don’t use quotation marks or any other ones with thoughts.
Write out numbers with letters.
You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, so you shouldn’t capitalize words like pokemon or pikachu or charizard. The only time you should capitalize it is if you’re using it as the pokemon’s name, ie, Ash’s pikachu is called Pikachu. This is because you only capitalize when it’s a proper noun, which are the names of places or things. Similar reasoning should be applied to any other words you’re thinking of capitalizing, like telephone or trainer. Or professor.
[“Raon, are you ready to battle?” Arceus asked the new Houndoom.
Raon-Houndoom just let out a burst of flame. “I was born ready!” He then proceeded to charge towards the Big Boss Pokémon.]
If there’s absolutely no issue going from human to pokemon like this, you might as well just have him empower a houndoom.
[For the record, Dark Pokémon doesn’t mean Dark-type. It just meant that they’re Evil. I only used that because let’s face it, Evil Pokémon sounds kinda lame. ]
It does sound lame. About the only possible worse name would be to instead call them dark pokemon when it doesn’t, in fact, refer to dark pokemon. Also a bad idea would be having our introductory dark pokemon be a dark pokemon to further confuse things.
Here are some free names:
Void pokemon, corrupted pokemon, empowered pokemon, Giratina’s pokemon, death pokemon, traitor pokemon. Wow! It’s like English has more words than just “dark” and “evil”.
One.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11756534/1/Pokemon-Pikachu-Buneary-and-Buizel-s-Adventure
You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, so you shouldn’t capitalize words like pokemon or pikachu or charizard. The only time you should capitalize it is if you’re using it as the pokemon’s name, ie, Ash’s pikachu is called Pikachu. This is because you only capitalize when it’s a proper noun, which are the names of places or things. Similar reasoning should be applied to any other words you’re thinking of capitalizing, like telephone or trainer. Or professor.
Dialogue is written as “Hello,” she said or “Hello!” she said, never “Hello.” She said or “Hello.” she said or “Hello,” She said or “Hello” she said. The only exception to this is if the next sentence doesn’t contain a speech verb, which is a verb describing how the dialogue is said. (“Speak” is not a speech verb.) In that case it’s written as “Hello.” She grinned, never “Hello,” she grinned or “Hello,” She grinned or “Hello.” she grinned. Note that something isn’t a speech verb just because it’s a sound you make with your mouth, so generally stuff like laughed or giggled is in the second category. Furthermore, if you’re breaking up two complete sentences it’s “Hi,” she said. “This is it.” not “Hi,” she said, “this is it.” or “Hi,” she said “this is it.” And if you’re breaking up a sentence in the middle, it’s “Hi. This,” she said, “is it.” The same punctuation and capitalization rules apply to thoughts, except you don’t use quotation marks or any other ones with thoughts.
“Your” is possessive, “you’re” is short for “you are”.
One.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11756636/1/Ash-s-brand-new-journey
Capitalize your title properly.
Write out numbers with letters.
You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, so you shouldn’t capitalize words like pokemon or pikachu or charizard. The only time you should capitalize it is if you’re using it as the pokemon’s name, ie, Ash’s pikachu is called Pikachu. This is because you only capitalize when it’s a proper noun, which are the names of places or things. Similar reasoning should be applied to any other words you’re thinking of capitalizing, like telephone or trainer. Or professor.
“It’s” means “it is”. “Its” is the possessive form.
[“Pikachu…Fuck his shit up… Ash commanded Pikachu, Pikachu did so by jumping into the field. “Use thunderbolt… Ash commanded Pikachu, Pikachu released a thunderbolt that would put a Zaptos in shame. (Damn son) It KO’ed Ho Oh.
“Ho-. Before Tobias was able to finish, Ash interupted him by saying “B/c you’re weak”. Ash then walked off.
Ash Pov
“Stupid fucker, no one insults my pokemon. I mumbled to myself]
This is generally terrible. Try harder.
Zero.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11756766/1/The-Giant-Tamer
Write out numbers with letters.
[the Professor’s Alakazam. ]
You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, so you shouldn’t capitalize words like pokemon or pikachu or charizard. The only time you should capitalize it is if you’re using it as the pokemon’s name, ie, Ash’s pikachu is called Pikachu. This is because you only capitalize when it’s a proper noun, which are the names of places or things. Similar reasoning should be applied to any other words you’re thinking of capitalizing, like telephone or trainer. Or professor.
Dialogue is written as “Hello,” she said or “Hello!” she said, never “Hello.” She said or “Hello.” she said or “Hello,” She said or “Hello” she said. The only exception to this is if the next sentence doesn’t contain a speech verb, which is a verb describing how the dialogue is said. (“Speak” is not a speech verb.) In that case it’s written as “Hello.” She grinned, never “Hello,” she grinned or “Hello,” She grinned or “Hello.” she grinned. Note that something isn’t a speech verb just because it’s a sound you make with your mouth, so generally stuff like laughed or giggled is in the second category. Furthermore, if you’re breaking up two complete sentences it’s “Hi,” she said. “This is it.” not “Hi,” she said, “this is it.” or “Hi,” she said “this is it.” And if you’re breaking up a sentence in the middle, it’s “Hi. This,” she said, “is it.” The same punctuation and capitalization rules apply to thoughts, except you don’t use quotation marks or any other ones with thoughts.
If you’re going to completely change all the characters’ personalities and backstories and world, just write about OCs.
Five because sue Ash, also seems to be in the same family as betrayal fic.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11756864/1/Pok%C3%A9mon-Sinnoh-Journey-VOL-3
Paragraphing has rules. You start a new paragraph with a new subject. The goal is not to divide your story up into even blocks. Also, a new speaker means you start a new paragraph.
You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, so you shouldn’t capitalize words like pokemon or pikachu or charizard. The only time you should capitalize it is if you’re using it as the pokemon’s name, ie, Ash’s pikachu is called Pikachu. This is because you only capitalize when it’s a proper noun, which are the names of places or things. Similar reasoning should be applied to any other words you’re thinking of capitalizing, like telephone or trainer. Or professor.
Dialogue is written as “Hello,” she said or “Hello!” she said, never “Hello.” She said or “Hello.” she said or “Hello,” She said or “Hello” she said. The only exception to this is if the next sentence doesn’t contain a speech verb, which is a verb describing how the dialogue is said. (“Speak” is not a speech verb.) In that case it’s written as “Hello.” She grinned, never “Hello,” she grinned or “Hello,” She grinned or “Hello.” she grinned. Note that something isn’t a speech verb just because it’s a sound you make with your mouth, so generally stuff like laughed or giggled is in the second category. Furthermore, if you’re breaking up two complete sentences it’s “Hi,” she said. “This is it.” not “Hi,” she said, “this is it.” or “Hi,” she said “this is it.” And if you’re breaking up a sentence in the middle, it’s “Hi. This,” she said, “is it.” The same punctuation and capitalization rules apply to thoughts, except you don’t use quotation marks or any other ones with thoughts.
It’s a horrible, horrible idea to try to write out an anime opening by putting in song lyrics and a few words of scene description. You’re not handing in a script for someone else to produce, this has to work on its own.
Six because it’s a second sequel. It’s good to know that at least still functions as usual.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11757031/1/Pokemon-Mystery-Dungeon-Team-Eternity
Chapters need to be longer than a couple words.
Dialogue is written as “Hello,” she said or “Hello!” she said, never “Hello.” She said or “Hello.” she said or “Hello,” She said or “Hello” she said. The only exception to this is if the next sentence doesn’t contain a speech verb, which is a verb describing how the dialogue is said. (“Speak” is not a speech verb.) In that case it’s written as “Hello.” She grinned, never “Hello,” she grinned or “Hello,” She grinned or “Hello.” she grinned. Note that something isn’t a speech verb just because it’s a sound you make with your mouth, so generally stuff like laughed or giggled is in the second category. Furthermore, if you’re breaking up two complete sentences it’s “Hi,” she said. “This is it.” not “Hi,” she said, “this is it.” or “Hi,” she said “this is it.” And if you’re breaking up a sentence in the middle, it’s “Hi. This,” she said, “is it.” The same punctuation and capitalization rules apply to thoughts, except you don’t use quotation marks or any other ones with thoughts.
Paragraphing has rules. You start a new paragraph with a new subject. The goal is not to divide your story up into even blocks. Also, a new speaker means you start a new paragraph.
One.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11757043/1/The-Eeveelutions
Paragraphing has rules. You start a new paragraph with a new subject. The goal is not to divide your story up into even blocks. Also, a new speaker means you start a new paragraph.
Use periods.
Dialogue is written as “Hello,” she said or “Hello!” she said, never “Hello.” She said or “Hello.” she said or “Hello,” She said or “Hello” she said. The only exception to this is if the next sentence doesn’t contain a speech verb, which is a verb describing how the dialogue is said. (“Speak” is not a speech verb.) In that case it’s written as “Hello.” She grinned, never “Hello,” she grinned or “Hello,” She grinned or “Hello.” she grinned. Note that something isn’t a speech verb just because it’s a sound you make with your mouth, so generally stuff like laughed or giggled is in the second category. Furthermore, if you’re breaking up two complete sentences it’s “Hi,” she said. “This is it.” not “Hi,” she said, “this is it.” or “Hi,” she said “this is it.” And if you’re breaking up a sentence in the middle, it’s “Hi. This,” she said, “is it.” The same punctuation and capitalization rules apply to thoughts, except you don’t use quotation marks or any other ones with thoughts.
You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, so you shouldn’t capitalize words like pokemon or pikachu or charizard. The only time you should capitalize it is if you’re using it as the pokemon’s name, ie, Ash’s pikachu is called Pikachu. This is because you only capitalize when it’s a proper noun, which are the names of places or things. Similar reasoning should be applied to any other words you’re thinking of capitalizing, like telephone or trainer. Or professor.
Zero.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11757140/1/Triple-trouble
Capitalize your title properly.
[Why do you always want to race up here?, It’s dangerous.” ]
Don’t put commas next to other punctuation.
Dialogue is written as “Hello,” she said or “Hello!” she said, never “Hello.” She said or “Hello.” she said or “Hello,” She said or “Hello” she said. The only exception to this is if the next sentence doesn’t contain a speech verb, which is a verb describing how the dialogue is said. (“Speak” is not a speech verb.) In that case it’s written as “Hello.” She grinned, never “Hello,” she grinned or “Hello,” She grinned or “Hello.” she grinned. Note that something isn’t a speech verb just because it’s a sound you make with your mouth, so generally stuff like laughed or giggled is in the second category. Furthermore, if you’re breaking up two complete sentences it’s “Hi,” she said. “This is it.” not “Hi,” she said, “this is it.” or “Hi,” she said “this is it.” And if you’re breaking up a sentence in the middle, it’s “Hi. This,” she said, “is it.” The same punctuation and capitalization rules apply to thoughts, except you don’t use quotation marks or any other ones with thoughts.
Don’t switch between first and third person. Pick one and stick with it.
You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, so you shouldn’t capitalize words like pokemon or pikachu or charizard. The only time you should capitalize it is if you’re using it as the pokemon’s name, ie, Ash’s pikachu is called Pikachu. This is because you only capitalize when it’s a proper noun, which are the names of places or things. Similar reasoning should be applied to any other words you’re thinking of capitalizing, like telephone or trainer. Or professor.
Paragraphing has rules. You start a new paragraph with a new subject. The goal is not to divide your story up into even blocks. Also, a new speaker means you start a new paragraph.
Zero.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11757164/1/Green-s-Pokemon-Journey-Kanto-Series
Your title should say more than that this is an OT fic.
Starting a story with your character waking up is terribly overdone and was boring the first time.
You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, so you shouldn’t capitalize words like pokemon or pikachu or charizard. The only time you should capitalize it is if you’re using it as the pokemon’s name, ie, Ash’s pikachu is called Pikachu. This is because you only capitalize when it’s a proper noun, which are the names of places or things. Similar reasoning should be applied to any other words you’re thinking of capitalizing, like telephone or trainer. Or professor.
Trainers start at ten.
[“Of course,” said Green. “I want to be a great pokemon trainer and the best way to do that is to challenge the gyms and compete in the Indigo League tournament.” ]
No, the best way of doing that was doing it six years ago.
[“There’s no way a ten year old would be able to handle being out it the world alone” Green said. “If you had gone out that young you wouldn’t have made it to Viridian City before you turned around and came home.
“Would not!” said Blue angrily clenching his fist.
“You couldn’t even handle that Spearow that attack us a couple months ago” Red countered.]
I’m not sure how you think this is a good argument when objectively they all did and he did and we saw it play out across multiple media just fine. Pointing out your own plot holes and terrible reasoning doesn’t fix those, you know, all it does is remind us that these sixteen year olds are so pathetic they’re struggling at things Ash managed.
Also, proofread.
Zero.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11757372/1/One-Winter-Awakening
You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, so you shouldn’t capitalize words like pokemon or pikachu or charizard. The only time you should capitalize it is if you’re using it as the pokemon’s name, ie, Ash’s pikachu is called Pikachu. This is because you only capitalize when it’s a proper noun, which are the names of places or things. Similar reasoning should be applied to any other words you’re thinking of capitalizing, like telephone or trainer. Or professor.
This is a really slow and repetitive fic. You drag out basic facts for no real reason. You spend ages explaining how people talked about their decision to have festivals in a particular way rather than actually showing her experiencing the festivals and what they mean to her.
I mean, really:
[“We should do this more often,” the bright, blue-haired girl had said, giving her speech on the ceremonial Rainbow Dais. “This year, things were changed up a bit by our visitors from Mitonga and Sophian. It was a good change, though! We had a lot of fun and learned about a lot of happenings. I thought it was really fun to connect with people on other islands. How about all of you?” ]
Did they? Because it’d be a lot more convincing to actually see them having fun and connecting over everybody saying that totally did happen, now to discuss the planning minutiae for future celebrations and explaining why it’s a good idea in ways that just make it weird they’ve only just thought of doing this now.
[ from xir roost atop Mount Sorbet on Sophian Island every year from January 4th to January 6th; Moltres stirred from xir slumber atop Faldera Volcano on Faldera Island every year from April 4th to April 6th; and Zapdos left xir perch ]
Don’t do this. “Their” or “its” is how it works in English. Also, if there’s no commas in your list items, you don’t need semincolons.
[Supurna suspected that her son Sparrow]
Why would she name her kid after something that doesn’t appear to exist in her world?
[ Pelipper even changed Sparrow’s diapers ]
You should maybe think about if what you’re writing makes any sense.
How do her friends not even know the name of her kid? Did she give birth to the kid alone and then not decide to keep the bad decisions rolling going by not bothering to bring him in to a hospital because sure, some forms of blindness are totally fixable if treated soon after birth, sure, some others can mean there’s some underlying other problem that needs medical attention immediately, but hey, why not just shrug and ignore it?
This doesn’t even seem to have much to do with pokemon. Her pokemon is just there to do minor tasks it really shouldn’t be capable of and coo at her and the legendary isn’t doing anything legendary but just appears to say hi. You could take them out without changing anything about the story’s structure.
Apparently this was supposed to be a fic about a made-up holiday, and I guess the author thought that meant a fic about people talking about how they were going to make a holiday.
Zero.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11757488/1/The-Awakening
[“I wish I had a Pokémon,” He sighed, “Battling trainers, Collecting Gym Badges, going on an adventure…” ]
Dialogue is written as “Hello,” she said or “Hello!” she said, never “Hello.” She said or “Hello.” she said or “Hello,” She said or “Hello” she said. The only exception to this is if the next sentence doesn’t contain a speech verb, which is a verb describing how the dialogue is said. (“Speak” is not a speech verb.) In that case it’s written as “Hello.” She grinned, never “Hello,” she grinned or “Hello,” She grinned or “Hello.” she grinned. Note that something isn’t a speech verb just because it’s a sound you make with your mouth, so generally stuff like laughed or giggled is in the second category. Furthermore, if you’re breaking up two complete sentences it’s “Hi,” she said. “This is it.” not “Hi,” she said, “this is it.” or “Hi,” she said “this is it.” And if you’re breaking up a sentence in the middle, it’s “Hi. This,” she said, “is it.” The same punctuation and capitalization rules apply to thoughts, except you don’t use quotation marks or any other ones with thoughts.
You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, so you shouldn’t capitalize words like pokemon or pikachu or charizard. The only time you should capitalize it is if you’re using it as the pokemon’s name, ie, Ash’s pikachu is called Pikachu. This is because you only capitalize when it’s a proper noun, which are the names of places or things. Similar reasoning should be applied to any other words you’re thinking of capitalizing, like telephone or trainer. Or professor.
Overage trainers are a terrible idea. It doesn’t matter what reason you’re trying to use to justify it, it leads into a story that doesn’t work.
Zero.
May I ask what your problem with using xir is? It’s a pretty common pronoun for non-binary people to use.
I dunno why Farla don’t like it, but what the hell is a “xir”?
Now, I know the answer now cos I just read it here. Then also asked google who told me it means to close in Somali and, far as I can tell, horse in Lojban (also never heard of Lojban). Therefore…
Seems like someone set off towards thoughtfully exotic and ran out of gas at illiterate poser.
“Exotic”? “Poser”? What the Hell? Non-binary people exist and write fanfic, and so do their friends. You’re jumping to conclusions in a really ugly way.
Whoever uses such a stupid, randomly pulled out of a bag letters as if it’s a word while there’s a perfectly fine alternative in English is a goddamn idiot and I don’t care who they are. If they didn’t even have the decency to steal Sie from German, they can gtfo.
Wow. I think it’s clear who the snob here is, and it’s not the people trying to find ways to discuss their marginalized identities with a language that wasn’t built to acknowledge their existence.
“Sie” and “xir” have basically the same pronunciation anyway.
It’s a gender-neutral pronoun, you idiot. I hadn’t encountered that one in the wild before and I could still tell it was supposed to be a gender-neutral pronoun, because of things like context and also having more than two brain cells to rub together.
I know you’re trying to say “this is so obscure and pretentious that no normal person would be able to figure out what it meant”, but what you’re actually saying is “DURRRR, I’M STUPID FOR A LIVING.”
“It’s a gender-neutral pronoun, you idiot.”
I have it on good authority that it and they are the gender neutral pronouns in English. “Xir” is a bunch of random letters some asshat put together out of sheer snobbery.
Language evolves and words are created as the need for them arises. For example, every time a new piece of technology becomes popular, we add words to the English language to describe what people do with that technology. The creation of new words isn’t an act of snobbery, but an act of trying to make it easier to describe the world around us. It looked pretty dumb and weird to talk about “texting” when people were first starting to use that word, but then people got used to it and it became a useful way to describe that action. The only people who object to it now seem to be people who think technology itself is dumb and weird.
If your objection is that the words we already have are good enough, rather than that making new words is bad, well. The reason people are trying to make new words is that they think the words we have aren’t good enough, especially when used as gender neutral pronouns for people. “It” has the connotation of something being an object, which makes it inappropriate for people, and “they” does weird things to grammar. Do I think we can suck it up and deal with the grammatical weirdness of “they”? Yes. But if other people don’t think that’s good enough, then they absolutely have the right to see if they can make something better stick, and that doesn’t make them snobs.
I don’t like the X’s either, but apparently there’s a history of X to denote other-gender/gender-neutrality, and I guess that’s getting mixed up in there.
ANYWAY yes, it’s wholly inappropriate to use “xir” on a pokemon that can’t express a gender identity, and it’s a mixup of pronouns created to be specifically gender-neutral vs pronouns used for general gender-neutrality, but, from context, it is clearly an attempt to be a gender-neutral pronoun. You are not doing yourself any favors by pretending you can’t even recognize what they’re trying to do.
When something new is invented, inventors usually have the decency to steal words or sounds (usually from Latin or Greek) to construct some kind of meaning. They don’t pull random letters out of a bag and string them together.
As for pronoun equality, steal from other languages. Seriously, Sie is right there. Take it. It’s not like English is stranger to mugging German for concepts it doesn’t have. There’s loads of other languages out there with all sorts of nuanced pronouns (such as Japanese). Building up a hill out of meaningless random letters to die on is dumb, and trying to equate it to entirely unrelated issues is dumber.
Jesus Christ. I AGREE that xie is a stupid idea for a pronoun and I really hope it’s not the one that ends up with a consensus, but it would still be REALLY FUCKING RUDE of me to criticize people for using it when ACTUAL NON-BINARY PEOPLE DO, for a variety of reasons that really aren’t any of my business to argue with. There are more important things than the purity of language.
I don’t care why anyone’s doing a thing I don’t like, I’m gonna argue against it. With extra lack of gentleness if it’s something I find particularly dumb.
Yeah, okay, you can do that if you’re really wedded to it, but you’re gonna sound transphobic the way people who go on and on about how dumb “hip hop culture” is sound racist. Maybe that’s worth it to you.
1) I don’t care what anyone thinks I am (especially someone I object to for doing dumb things) and 2) Is that a more flattering name for “gangsta” stuff? If so, hell yeah, it’s dumb as all fuck and nobody needs to be racist to see that. If it’s not that, I dunno and have no opinion on it.
If you don’t put any effort into understanding why people do the thing you don’t like, then you’re going to be unable to understand the thing enough to effectively argue against it. You are coming off worse than someone who went out of their way to unnecessarily apply their favorite gender-neutral pronoun to a pokemon for no good reason.
I already did both? I’ve understood the reason and find it completely lacking, there’s nothing else to add to my argument about the subject matter.
Yeah… I can see the argument for it maybe not being the best fit in this particular context, but it’s a pedantic enough argument that criticizing someone who might have personal reasons for wanting to increase exposure of neopronouns any way they can is pretty tacky.
But they could’ve just used it for the main character, who actually would know what pronouns they wanted!
Yeah, that’s fair.
Because it’s not being used for a nonbinary person. It’s being used for someone who’s either officially sexless or whose sex is unknown, and we can’t even say that maybe Articuno identifies this way and chose it because it’s used as the blanket pronoun for all three legendary birds and so is obviously used to fit their unbreedable status.
THEY means “gender unknown”, XIR means “gender specified as nonbinary”. Using it based on gonad status backwards.
(Also the only reason it’s not the worst nonbinary pronoun is because we have “hir”, literally any other consonant would be better than the letter we never use that makes it stand out horribly.)
Also the idea that an animal could be nonbinary is bizarre, to say the least… you’d have to argue that wild pokemon also exist in patriarchal cultures that place a strict divide on how males and females should act…
That’s. Uh. Not really what being any kind of trans is about.
Well, no, being trans is about dysphoria. But I’ve heard nonbinary used to mean simply someone who isn’t comfortable with their assigned gender role. That person could be trans or not. Is that not the popular definition? (edit: I guess the better question would be: Is ‘nonbinary’ meant to be a trans-specific term, regardless of how it’s being used?)
No. Nonbinary people are people who identify as anything that’s not male or female. Some want to medically transition to whatever extent, some want to socially transition to whatever extent, some don’t feel like those things would be helpful. As a group, nonbinary people count as trans, because “identifies with a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth” is more or less the definition of “trans” and leaving out nonbinary people is rude as fuck, but some individual nonbinary people don’t consider themselves trans. (And yes, dysphoria has a lot to do with being trans, but do be careful about reducing the whole thing to the one acceptable Trans Misery Narrative, okay?)
Nonbinary people are people who identify as anything that’s not male or female.
I swear I’m not being sarcastic, but, uh, what are the other options? I think you’re conflating sex and gender here.
I swear I’m not being sarcastic, but, uh, what are the other options? I think you’re conflating sex and gender here.
I know the difference between sex and gender, dumbass. Do you always act like your 101-level understanding of a subject means that people who say something you don’t understand know even less about it than you do?
Imagine that, just as biological sex exists on a continuum, gender identity does as well. So instead of just a man box and a woman box, there’s a spectrum:
WomanMan
Like so.
Most people are clustered around the endpoints:
WomanMan
Here are some people, represented by the Xs! These are binary people! They’re either directly on the endpoints or close enough that they feel pretty much comfortable with the expectation that they’re a man or a woman – not necessarily the expectations placed on them for being a man or a woman, but the expectation that they ARE a man, if they’re men, or a woman, if they’re women. These people might be cis or trans, and additionally might be gender-conforming or gender-nonconforming. They might feel (correctly) like society’s idea of what it means to be that gender are bullshit. They may not even be perceived as that gender by society at large, especially if they’re trans, gender-nonconforming, or both. But they feel like they fundamentally are that gender. They consider themselves that gender. That’s their gender.
Now, imagine a person who falls on the middle of that spectrum:
WomanMan
That person is (one type of) nonbinary! They don’t feel like a man, or a woman, but something in between. Again, this has nothing to do with whether that person has interests/mannerisms/whatever atypical to the gender they were assigned at birth. They may, they may not, but they feel like they are not the gender they were assigned at birth, and also not the “opposite” binary gender. They experience some kind of dysphoria, not in a way that tells them they should be on the other endpoint, but in a way that tells them they should be around the middle, in body, in concept, or both. They are nonbinary because they feel like their gender itself – not just the way they’d like to present themselves, not just the way they’d like to behave, and not just what they want others to expect and assume about them as a person – is in the middle.
(Note that they might not be exactly in the middle, like how a bisexual person doesn’t have to be 100% equally attracted to same/other gender people in order to count as bisexual. If someone’s in the middle enough to feel like they’re in the middle, then that’s what we’re discussing.)
This is a thing that has historically come up for people, even when they didn’t know the concept of nonbinary gender! There are people who felt dysphoria, who wanted to transition, and who realized they were happiest at what felt like a middle state to them. There are people who agonized for years about whether they were trans, because where they were didn’t fit but the other side didn’t seem exactly right either, and who happily identified as nonbinary once they learned it was a thing. In cultures that have a third gender (which in general are, at risk of being a little reductive, AMAB people who fall towards the “woman” side of the spectrum and who want to partner with men), there are people in that group who feel similar to binary trans women, people in that group who feel similar to gender-nonconforming binary cis men, and people in that group who feel like something other than women and men, like being in the third gender category suits them exactly. And while most butch women in the lesbian community consider themselves butch women, there have been people who felt like being butch was an expression of a gender identity towards the middle or “man” side of the spectrum, and were happy conceiving of themselves in that way.
The spectrum itself is a bit of an oversimplification, too. Some people feel like both or like neither, or like they occupy a sliding position on the scale. Some people feel like the concept of gender doesn’t apply to them at all. Some people from cultures with a third gender identify with the third gender, and wouldn’t define it in relation to “man” and “woman”. Some people just don’t want to define their nonbinary identities by the binary at all, for whatever reason. (Yes, some of these people are probably feeling similar things and defining them differently, but until we understand what’s going on better, why shouldn’t they?)
So, uh. Yeah. Those are the other options. Use Google or something, maybe. It’s not that hard.
Also by this definition almost everyone is trans. Gender
noncomformity =/= trans automatically. It’s much more complex than that,
as you go on to say.
That was a typo on my part – I meant “identifies AS a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth” rather than “identifies WITH a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth”. Anyway, yes, gender-nonconformity is not the same as being trans, but if you literally consider yourself not a (man/woman) rather than just being a (man/woman) more similar to most (women/men), there’s something else going on besides gender-nonconformity.
Holy aggressive response to basic questions, Batman.
just as biological sex exists on a continuum
Biological sex does not exist on a continuum. This is what I mean, you’re mixing sex and gender. *Gender* exists on a continuum, because it’s made up of fluid social rules and expectations no one could reasonably conform to 100% of the time. Sex refers to biology, male/female. There are also people with intersex conditions, which are medical conditions and not evidence of a third sex. Gendered expectations for a person are assigned based on sex, or the sex they appear to be, in the case of intersex people and passing trans people. Gender-nonconformity, in its many forms, refers to the rejection of those expectations.
You’re awfully angry for someone who has no idea what they’re talking about. Yikes.
You’re the one who really doesn’t know what she’s talking about here, Act. Gender identity is a lot more than conformity or lack thereof. And sex is a lot more complicated than “male, female, or medical condition”. There’s an “average male” and “average female” based on certain combinations of primary and secondary sex characteristics, chromosomal configuration, hormone balance, and gamete formation, and ALL of those can vary to a tremendous extent, and independently of each other.
Gender identity is indeed complex and varies based on a lot of psychosocial and hormonal influences. However, I have never seen any science, anywhere, that posits humans are anything but sexually dimorphic. Obviously the manifestation of dimorphism itself varies, but that doesn’t mean there is no dimorphism, just that genetic and environmental factors produce variations in individuals.
I honestly can’t think of any species with more than two sexes. There are sexless species and those who reproduce asexually or diverge into male/female later in life or flip back and forth, but none of those things apply to humans and none of them are evidence of a third sex.
That’s why I was so convinced they’re trying to talk about gender here, I honestly can’t imagine where the idea humanity isn’t split male/female comes from. That’s ludicrous.
No one is talking about a third sex. We are talking about “male” and “female” not being discrete categories but rather endpoints on a spectrum. Meaning there is a basically infinite number of “intermediate” sexes.
But that logic only works with gender, not sex. That’s where I’m confused. It makes sense to not “feel” feminine because femininity is man-made — women aren’t naturally submissive, for example, we’re socialized to be that way, so obviously there are a lot of women who push up against that expectation and would be considered nonbinary by a two-gender system.
But that doesn’t work with sex. Sex *is* objective. You can’t “feel” male unless you have dysphoria or another form of body dysmoprhia and your physical body feels wrong, because male is a physical state, not a manifestation of one’s person. There are definitely people who don’t clearly fit into the physical male/female, but those people have medical conditions, they’re not evidence of extra sexes. A sterile woman isn’t less female, for example, she’s just a female with a medical condition. And most importantly, society is still going to treat her as female.
The reason this is so important, in a larger sense, is because sex and gender are two different oppressive dynamics. A transwoman, for instance, receives societal backlash for failing to conform to gender roles (ie, a male should act masculine). A young girl made fun of for not wearing makeup is dealing with gendered oppression as well (ie, makeup as integral to femininity). However, a young girl refused an education is being oppressed because of her sex, something that would happen regardless of her gender identity. Being able to name the problem in both instances — gender as distinct from sex — is integral to dismantling the systems that cause them.
“But that logic only works with gender, not sex. That’s where I’m
confused. It makes sense to not “feel” feminine because femininity is
man-made — women aren’t naturally submissive, for example, we’re
socialized to be that way, so obviously there are a lot of women who
push up against that expectation and would be considered nonbinary by a
two-gender system.”
I don’t even know how to continue with this when I keep trying to say that “non-binary” and “non-conforming” do not mean the same thing and you continue to use them interchangeably. I may need to take a break soon. Non-binary is about your gender identity – what gender you ARE, independent of your sex. Non-conforming is about not doing what’s expected of your gender, again independent of your sex.
“There are definitely people who don’t clearly fit into the physical
male/female, but those people have medical conditions, they’re not
evidence of extra sexes.”
No. Please listen to what I am saying. It is ENTIRELY NORMAL HUMAN VARIATION for people to have some other-than-average alignment of the physical sex properties I listed above. Some of them are subtle enough that they aren’t even seen as medical conditions. Some of them aren’t subtle, but those “medical conditions” are really just pathologicalization of harmless variation. Some can be genuinely harmful.
“A transwoman, for instance, receives societal backlash for failing to
conform to gender roles (ie, a male should act masculine). A young girl
made fun of for not wearing makeup is dealing with gendered oppression
as well (ie, makeup as integral to femininity).”
Okay, here’s a good example to demonstrate the point I’m trying to make about non-conformity. What about a trans woman who fails to perform femininity properly? Trans women can be just as unwilling to bend to patriarchal gender roles as a cis woman. She can feel female AS AN IDENTITY without being traditionally feminine.
Non-binary is about your gender identity – what gender you ARE, independent of your sex. Non-conforming is about not doing what’s expected of your gender, again independent of your sex.
But technically wouldn’t any gender identity that’s nonconforming also be nonbinary because society uses a gender binary? Or am I arguing weird semantics? Bleh, probably, sorry.
What about a trans woman who fails to perform femininity properly?
Gender! A male who decided to transition is first given shit for not being masculine, and then gets doubled down on if they don’t conform to femininity properly. Which is terrible, and why it’s so hard to be trans. But they’re not being oppressed because of their sex. Male people are not oppressed because of their sex, anywhere.
She can feel female AS AN IDENTITY without being traditionally feminine.
How, though? What does it mean to ‘feel’ female if you’re not talking about dysmorphic disorders that manifest physically? What is female ‘identity’? I’m a woman and I honestly would have no idea how to answer that question. My identity as a female human is in my experiences and personality. Are you arguing that there’s such thing as a ‘female’ personality?
“Gender! A male who decided to transition isfirst given shit for not being masculine, and then gets doubled down on if they don’t conform to femininity properly. Which is terrible, and why it’s so hard to be trans. But they’re not being oppressed because of their sex. Male people are not oppressed because of their sex, anywhere.”
“he can feel female AS AN IDENTITY without being traditionally feminine.”
Um, wow. Are you seriously refusing to use she/her pronouns for trans women? Because I’m not really comfortable continuing this conversation on those terms.
” Are you arguing that there’s such thing as a ‘female’ personality?”
I will answer this in brief, though: not exactly. It’s still pretty ill-defined from what I’ve read, but I definitely feel very much that I AM a woman despite being very gender-nonconforming myself.
ETA: Should add, since that last paragraph may make it seem otherwise in context, that I am cis. I have no trouble imagining how a trans woman could feel the same way, though.
Huh? I meant ‘they’ as in ‘transwomen, plural’, since we weren’t talking about a specific individual, and that second part I copied from you? Though now that I look I apparently didn’t copy it correctly. That was a genuine and incredibly Unfortunate mistake, mea culpa. I’ll go back and edit it.
I definitely feel very much that I AM a woman despite being very gender-nonconforming myself.
As do I, but that’s more based on the way I’ve been treated for being the sex I am than any internal feeling I’ve ever had. I would argue womanhood is a net of experiences specific to females (and those treated from birth as female) as part of certain societies and not something that can be opted into. (Eg, womanhood in Pakistan is very different from in Massachusetts is different from Russia etc etc.) eta: Though admittedly that definition does blur for, say, a transwoman that has been assimilated for a very long time.
Okay, thanks, that’s good to know.
I’m not really sure how to explain any better, and I understand that it’s a really confusing concept, and I’m kind of worn out on this. I’ll come back to this conversation if I figure out anything to add.
No worries. I know this can be a really fraught topic and I appreciate your being patient with me ^^;
“The reason this is so important, in a larger sense, is because sex and
gender are two different oppressive dynamics. A transwoman, for
instance, receives societal backlash for failing to conform to gender
roles (ie, a male should act masculine). A young girl made fun of for
not wearing makeup is dealing with gendered oppression as well (ie,
makeup as integral to femininity). However, a young girl refused an
education is being oppressed because of her sex, something that would
happen regardless of her gender identity.”
An alternate explanation, and one that doesn’t make a really confusing case where women being expected to wear makeup because of cultural pressures is controlled by completely different forces than women being expected to stay uneducated because of cultural pressures, is that transphobia and misogyny are separate (albeit related) forms of oppression! Transphobia asserts that the gender a person is assigned at birth due to their sex is their real and true gender, no matter what, and people who try to go against this are disgusting, laughable freaks. Misogyny asserts that men should be in power and act like men (in ways designed to uphold men being in power), and women should be submissive to men and act like women (in ways designed to uphold women being submissive.) It’s no coincidence that socially unacceptable male gender-nonconformity generally involves a man doing something perceived as weak, and socially unacceptable female gender-nonconformity generally involves a woman doing something perceived as improperly submissive or just… unfuckable.
So, looking at the trans woman in your example (note the space, because “trans” is an adjective describing a type of woman, not a completely different category than a cis woman): because transphobia asserts that everyone is REALLY the gender they were assigned at birth, whenever anyone perceives her as trans, she’s simultaneously perceived as a freakish trans person, a gender-nonconforming (and thus defective) man, and an unfuckable (and thus defective) woman. And she’ll be oppressed for being perceived as a freakish trans person because of transphobia, and oppressed for being perceived as both a defective man and a defective woman because of misogyny. And when she’s accepted as a woman, conditionally or otherwise, she’ll be oppressed for being a woman because of misogyny, PLUS any failure to be an acceptable woman amplifies the extent that she’s perceived as a freakish trans person/defective man/defective woman trifecta. So that’s gotta be a blast. (In fact, trans feminists have coined the word “transmisogyny” specifically for the intersection of misogyny and transphobia as it applies to trans women, because it is apparently REALLY pervasive and also not a blast at all.)
The young girl who’s made fun of for not wearing makeup is also being oppressed for being a woman because of misogyny. She doesn’t want to be ornamental for men, so that’s bad. (Additionally, because of transphobia, if she didn’t identify as a girl, she’d be treated like one anyway.) Same with the young girl who isn’t allowed to go to school – misogyny claims that she doesn’t need to go to school because she’s more useful to men without it. (And again, because of transphobia, she’d be treated like a girl regardless of her personal identity.)
I think we’re pretty much agreeing here, if using terms that are a bit different. Homophobia is related to all these things as well, which I think is worth noting. edit: NOTING, NOT NOTHING! Gah, what is with my typos today?!
Also — I’ve actually read that you’re *supposed* to write transmen, for instace, one word, for that exact reason — that the space implies “trans” is a modifier and indication of lesser-ness. Far as I can tell there’s not a lot of agreement in the community (I’ve also seen a lot of debate about whether “transexual” is a slur or just a trans person who’s medically transitioned).
Internet discourse has its strong points, but it does make it hard to come up with concrete rules for this kind of thing. (I’ve also been out of the college scene where this manifests for a while, so God knows I’m probs behind the curve.)
I swear I’m not trying to mansplain here, Act, but scholars like Judith Butler also conceive biological sex as a social construct, if that helps.
The terminology’s a little muddled since people as a whole spent so long treating internal sense of gender, social rules, and the facts about someone’s body as intrinsically connected parts of the same thing. The way I’m using the terms, and the way I’ve seen them used before, “sex” refers to bodies, “gender roles” refers to cultural/social pressures, and “gender” or “gender identity” refer to a person’s own sense of their gender (which can be informed by physical and/or social factors, but is generally a separate concept.)
Bodies and gendered traits ARE on a continuum. Ember explained it better than I could, but you appear to still not be getting it? Here’s an article about how many scientists are starting to approach biological sex as something more complicated than a two box system: http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943
Defining anything that doesn’t fit the model as an outlier and not a natural part of human variation seems to have more to do with preserving the purity of the model than it does with accurately describing what’s going on.
You’re awfully bad at listening for someone who wants to have the high road :)
That article is fascinating, thank you. But I do think the onus is on the other side, so to speak, to prove these cases *aren’t* outliers. This article itself states that it’s estimated that at most only 1% of the population is affected by these conditions. They’re important to study, especially for those who have them, but they are, in the most statistical sense, outliers.
It’d be like insisting humans can have eleven fingers. We *can* in the most literal sense, but it’s a birth defect, not the baseline for the species.
edit: Also, ugh, it’s so fucked how much medical abuse there is for people with DSD conditions. Please don’t think I’m saying they’re not important to address, they totally are. Just that biologically, they’re not the norm, which I think is important when talking about class-based oppression vis a vis sex and gender.
Only 1-2% of the population has green eyes. Strangely enough, we seem to have no problem perceiving green eyes as a natural, though rare, part of human variation.
No one is oppressed for having green eyes. People are oppressed for their sex. Blurring the lines of what sex when 99% of the population is unequivocally male or female makes it harder for women to combat this. In a word without sex-based oppression, none of this would matter — it would just be.
Alternately, making the line-blurring mainstream enough could make sexism less tenable. Food for thought.
Unfortunately, while that’s true, I also think it makes it very, very easy for men to coopt and use these ideas against women, and it erases the nature of sex-based oppression in places where this isn’t going to become mainstream in the near future.
You’re awfully bad at listening for someone who wants to have the high road :)
Can we stop sniping at and assuming the worst of people, please. This is complicated issue and it’s not a sin to not grasp the nuances instantly.
You’re awfully bad at listening for someone who wants to have the high road :)
Non-binary person here: stop helping. Save the vitriol for people who want to kill me, not for people who are mildly confused about terminology.
I’m going to ignore your condescension and answer your question. Other options include “agender” and “genderfluid.” You can look those up if you’re interested in learning more and not just winning arguments on the internet.
Like I said, I wasn’t trying to be condescending, I was genuinely confused. Your answer clarifies that yes, they meant gender and not sex. That’s an important distinction. Was not aware that this was an Internet Argument I was trying to win as opposed to making sure I was interpreting the answer correctly.
Yeah, your initial question wasn’t the problem. The problem was when she answered it, you continued to blow her off and insist she was talking about sex when she repeatedly explained she was talking about gender and blow off everything else she was trying to explain to you like you didn’t even read it.
To be fair, Alice did continue to bring up sex in addition to gender.
(Also the only reason it’s not the worst nonbinary pronoun is because we have “hir”, literally any other consonant would be better than the letter we never use that makes it stand out horribly.)
Also, “xir” sounds like XOR, meaning “one or the other, but not both, and not neither”, which is pretty much the farthest thing from nonbinary-ness.
lol, I like se/hir over neopronouns that start incorporating z and x, but I’m glad that singular they/them has come to the front of the pack lately.
Out of curiosity, do you know how common is the usage of those new pronouns in English? We also have a new pronoun in Brazilian Portuguese, but unfortunately, at least from what I can see, it doesn’t see much use outside of specific academic circles (not even among non-binary people).
I’ve only ever seen any new pronouns being used on the Internet. I remember that my old maths teacher was non-binary, and whilst they didn’t mind being referred to as “Ms” or “she” by their students, “Mx” and “they” were used on the college’s records. All of the non-binary members of the LGBT society, myself included, also used “they”.
I see. Thanks! :-)
They/them is the most common from what I’ve seen but it hasn’t really broken into the mainstream yet. You can set facebook to use they/them for yourself, which is pretty cool.
It’s relatively common to see they/them on tumblr but I haven’t seen other neutral pronouns aside from on a couple of forums that are specifically welcoming to gender atypical people. (And of course roleplayers turned it into a game with “faeself” pronouns and such.) Back during the LJ days I’d see se/hir more often and sometimes ze/zir.
Hm, I see. Thanks! :-)
(…Disqus, why won’t you let me repeat comments?)
Why doesn’t anybody but me like ne? It’s close enough to the standard ones that it doesn’t look distractingly unnatural, but not so close there’s confusion over what the spoken difference even is. It’s so wonderfully functional!
I’ve actually never seen ne before, I like it! I assume it’s less popular because the “Ni!” jokes would never stop.
Another reason to lament geek culture’s obsession with the same five jokes.
The sad part is that Monty Python prided themselves on their humour being innovative and absurd. I can’t imagine they’d be happy people are content with simply repeating their jokes instead of making new ones.
That is one weird usage of xir. For a pokemon that’s meant to be a glorified animal closer to sexless it’s weird to see it attached there.
But anyway, keep doing your work Farla. It’s been an interesting crop this month