The Other Pokeauthors, Part 72

Another PhD devalues their degree, but in a twist, it’s an engineer this time! Also, some discussion about the evolution of hate groups and bigotry.

re: Your review to Fire & Ash
Sep 16Montenya of the Fairies
A response to your review at https://www.fanfiction.net/r/12653383/

It belongs as a Pokemon fanfiction, which is why it is located under Pokemon.
I chose to capitalize Pokemon to emphasize its importance to the world. There are no set rules– grammar changes wildly between regions and years, so as long as it’s understandable I think it’s fine.
Thank you for your review.

secs agohttps://www.fanfiction.net/topic/11834/165132256/1/World-Tags

https://www.fanfiction.net/topic/11834/55376155/1/Capitalization-Thread

Actually read the review, please.

Hesitant rebuttals
Sep 16Helix Walker
A response to your review at https://www.fanfiction.net/r/12654867/

Rebuttals:

“You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, so you shouldn’t capitalize words like pokemon or pikachu or charizard. The only time you should capitalize it is if you’re using it as the pokemon’s name, ie, Ash’s pikachu is called Pikachu. This is because you only capitalize when it’s a proper noun, which are the names of places or things. Similar reasoning should be applied to any other words you’re thinking of capitalizing, like telephone or trainer. Or professor. Before you message me about this, please look at fanfiction (d o t) net/topic/11834/55376155/1/Capitalization-Thread to make sure your argument hasn’t already been addressed.”

Eh, I feel like there’s sufficient justification. From the thread you cited, I go with the justification of “You wouldn’t capitalize animal or mouse or dragon, that’s true, but Pokémon are different than that. In the books and mini novelizations that are officially published by the Pokémon Company International, a Pokémon’s name is always capitalized. That’s just the way it is, and if you guys disagree with it, that’s fine – but on the subject of Pokémon, the Pokémon Company International are the experts.”

I admittedly wasn’t aware that the capitalization issue was so contentious in the community, which I now see. I feel like there’s justification for either way of writing it, but I’m also arguably more permissive about such rules. If you care that much, I’ll concede the point and not argue it.

“Except that they all have Levitate”

Actually, no, they don’t. I just double-checked bulbapedia, and none of the line has Levitate. They can learn Magnet Rise, which might be what you’re thinking of, but no Levitate. (I wish they had Levitate – then my Magnezone wouldn’t have died against Cyrus’s Gyarados ;.;)

“No, they don’t. Rock is a terrible conductor. This is another reason why this story is awkward: this particular type matchup does not make any sense on examination. Giratina is right, there is no logical distinction between “rock” and “ground”, that’s just a strange game convention that breaks down the more moves they add. Why can’t you hit a bird with a mud bomb? Why do they keep insisting sand (lots of little rocks) counts as “ground”? It’s a purely symbolic association – we say that electricity drains toward a “ground” in circuitry, but that doesn’t mean literal earth. If there was any logic to the game, steel would beat electricity and the ground type wouldn’t exist.”

Ok, I’ll admit that I asspulled physics to justify game mechanics. Re: rock being a terrible conductor: If I wanted to be snippy, I could come up with some specific variety of rocks that do conduct well (there are some), but… meh, your points are mostly valid here. The gameplay mechanics don’t make sense. I, too, beat my head against a wall over some of the type matchups. But when it comes to my story writing, I guess you could say that my loose philosophy is to mostly adhere to game mechanics and come up with story/in-universe reasons why I can hand wave it, with some divergence where I think it will make a good story. I had intended for Giratina’s initial tantrum about the game mechanics to be ruefully humorous lampshading, but I’m guessing I fumbled that delivery. /sigh.

“This is well-written, but the premise stands on shaky ground.”

Yay! Thanks!

I checked and magnemite do indeed lack Levitate, which boggles my mind. I distinctly remember fighting one with it (I think at the trainer’s school?) but Google fails to confirm. How embarrassing.

Regarding Your Review
Sep 16Mason Lee
I find your reviews to be quite eye opening, and I thank you again for your criticism.
Please pardon my use of the semicolon, and other questionable uses of punctuation. I should actually EDUCATE myself on how to use them properly instead of defaulting to the Microsoft Word autocorrect.
I would have included an AU to direct people who haven’t read my other story to my other story. But I realized that if you need a totally separate piece of work to understand what’s going on, you’ve basically failed at general sequel writing. So I try to pay homage to my other story in subliminal messages to hint people into realizing something very, very wrong happened long ago.
I would’ve, again, included an AU to direct people to my other story to explain the negativity towards pokémon and their race in general. Nearly everyone was raised under Catholic beliefs, and they felt as though pokémon were violating those beliefs in some shape and form. It wasn’t always this way, and it definitely wasn’t everyone. Communities are few and far between, but very large. (Ranging from 100-2,000.) This group just happens to hate pokémon.
The idea that another inhuman being having an intelligence equal or higher of that of a human existing seems disgusting to those that believe in their Catholic God. They’re the equivalent of demons without the danger. Their mere existence is an insult to the people, and even a few go as far as going on hunts to wipe them out. This particular person, however, isn’t that cold, in his opinion. He still hates them, very, very much but finds it extremely immoral to kill something for being there.
That brings me to another point. Arceus, however you pronounce his name, is the god of gods in pokémon cannon. (Or, at least in my opinion. He’s at least the biggest and most powerful.) Someone from my other story stumbles upon arceus’ corpse during his travels, and documents it.
I’m… kind of confused by your other point. “Something went wrong here?”
No, people aren’t scared of pokémon anymore. They’re disgusted by them. Wolves, more specifically a hardened, powerful, and much bigger version of an average wolf live in the area that this story takes place. While very rare in cities and suburbs, they’re still very dangerous. They weigh about the same as a man and can barely fit through a doorway. A person skilled with a knife can kill one on their own.
Pokémon don’t normally howl on their own, since there’s a literal hunting group waiting to burn them at the stake. This braixen was trapped in an alley, fearing she would be seen and killed.
9h agoI apologize for this being one, huge block of text. I thought indentation would carry over into the text box.
secs ago[But I realized that if you need a totally separate piece of work to understand what’s going on, you’ve basically failed at general sequel writing.]

No, you’ve only failed at general sequel writing if you don’t provide the information the audience needs to understand the story, which is exactly what happened here. If you’re writing in a very specific AU, it’s a good idea to explain that AU somewhere. I wouldn’t have minded a link to another fic or an explanatory post.

[I’m… kind of confused by your other point. “Something went wrong here?”]

“the slight remain of psychic ability taking the form of a higher I.Q” does not make grammatical sense. I can’t tell exactly what you meant to say, but you need to rework the sentence.

[Nearly everyone was raised under Catholic beliefs, and they felt as though pokémon were violating those beliefs in some shape and form.]

How you’re raised doesn’t trump basic human nature. Look at all the Catholics who support gay and trans people despite the official canon declaring them abominations. Look at all the racists who changed their tune as soon as they actually sat down and had conversations with ethnic minorities — there are entire documentaries about that. Real-life oppressive societies enforced this behavior through segregation so the underclass could not integrate or interact with mainstream society, but you apparently have pokemon begging in the streets. I just cannot believe such hatred would be so strongly preserved in a society where you interact with the people you hate on a regular basis. Even in deeply racist American communities where they call Black Lives Matter terrorists or whatever, people do not actually go out to genocide black people on a regular basis and typically claim to have many black friends. “Society tells them to hate” doesn’t justify that — it means something is broken on a much more fundamental level.

47m agoI’m sorry… what does human nature have to do with religious groups? I’m genuinely confused.

And about people that go out and mass-murder other people for who they are and what they stand for. The KKK? Didn’t they lynch African-Americans for stepping out of line? They didn’t exactly shoot up a group for them just being there… but it came pretty close.

My own grandfather was part of a gang that went around and killed homosexuals if they went out of their homes alone. He wasn’t there the day that happened, luckily.

The hatred wasn’t preserved. It started a generation back, when someone spread the belief that pokemon are evil because of an event that I won’t go too much into detail.

secs ago[I’m sorry… what does human nature have to do with religious groups? I’m genuinely confused.]

Well, everything, if we’re speaking generally, but you did say this was specifically due to some kind of Catholic belief.

The K** is a small subgroup of the population that has dwindled and withered over time as the cultural tide turned against them. They killed a lot of people, but the greater culture did not agree with everything they did, and they were not successful in reducing the black population to the same degree you’ve said the worldwide pokemon population has dwindled. I think a better comparison here is Nazism, and I think we all know how much opposition they faced within even their own country.

Basically, it comes down to what you’re trying to say and accomplish with this element. If you want something like the Old South, pokemon can still be terribly oppressed, but the level of hatred will vary by individual, and hate crimes will be opportunistic strikes by small groups rather than the concerted genocide you imply with the 800 species to 23 factoid. It may still be possible for the protagonist’s neighborhood to be particularly evil, but it doesn’t make sense for it to look the same on a global scale unless we are looking at some kind of Nazi takeover scenario; and then, there shouldn’t be any pokemon left at all, as the bigots seem to have definitively won. In any case, I still don’t think it makes sense for the protagonist to be treated an injured, sobbing wreck with this much contempt unless the prevailing narrative says that pokemon don’t have real emotions and only cry to manipulate people.

secs agoYou’ve got the swear filter on, might want to switch that off.

So it censors “KKK”, but not “Nazi”.

22m agoRight. This is the kind of sequel confusion I was talking about.

A virus several thousand years ago has killed nearly every living being outside of plants and fungi. The sudden drop in (healthy) pokemon population is directly proportional to the sudden drop in human population. This is why so many technologies are unavailable, and the ones that are are either scarce or not completely understood, like the computer and wireless communication. This is also why there’s so few species and so few people living in this town in Maine.

However, this is the only known city that treats pokemon with this level of prejudice and hatred. Every other community strongly advises the city changes their attitude toward pokemon, and will take action on their own if they don’t do so in the near future.

secs agoAhh. Okay, yeah, that makes more sense. But there’s no indication of any of that from the first chapter. If this is a direct sequel to your other story, you should identify it as such; if not, you should include enough information that it can stand on its own.
re: Your review to Insanity – Pokémon Creepypastas
Sep 17Duke of Nothing
A response to your review at https://www.fanfiction.net/r/12654732/

Hmmm… I agree with you… But Pokémon Red is sort of an interactive video game where the player gets to make many choices. Don’t worry though, the next chapter should be more flowing… I think… Maybe…

re: Your review to Insanity – Pokémon Creepypastas
5h agoA response to your review at https://www.fanfiction.net/r/12654732/

And as for the jarring transitioning…
Yep… c’est horrible.
I’ll fix it sometime in the future, when I’m not so lazy as I now am.
Still though, I should spend more time per chapter…

re: Your review to Pokémon: Senji Chronicles
Sep 17Fire and Ice Master 123
A response to your review at https://www.fanfiction.net/r/12654785/

Um, thanks but I’ll stick to how I usually write.

secs agoHow you usually write is hard to follow. Grammar exists for a reason, and that reason is to make written communication clearer. Be considerate to your readers.

Will you move it to the anime world, at least?

3m agoOkay fine!

But your the only ones who’s complained so, I’m not changing how I feel comtable W ritting in.

Goshdarnit people step up to the plate.

Brought in Farla for ghostwriting here:

secs agoAlmost nobody reviews, so probably everybody else just rolled their eyes and left. And since that’s your attitude, why would anyone first speak up? Maybe a dozen people looked at the reviews, saw nobody else had said anything yet, and knew if they said anything you’d reply saying you weren’t going to do it because no one else had spoken up first. For that matter, I’ve known authors to ignore two or three reviews by saying only a few people have complained!

Besides, you won’t lose readers over fixing these things, but you’d likely gain them.

1h ago“I just like writing my way, I don’t care if people review.”
Sep 23Im sorry if j camr off as rude, your just my first cryitasims I’ve gotten yet so j was a bit mad, I’ll try to improve it I promise, but don’t except it to be pitch perfect.

I’m sorry if i handled your contrusive critsium so bad.

 
re: Your review to Ambition!: The Efforts of a High Schooler
Sep 17Orchid Rex
A response to your review at https://www.fanfiction.net/r/12655402/

I’m Sorry I’m Completely Illiterate I Can’t Read This

secs ago?
Baking and Bonding Review Reply
Sep 17ChE clarinetist
A response to your review at https://www.fanfiction.net/r/12630903/

Thanks for the Category point, I had it originally but then it didn’t accept the number code and I didn’t realize it cleared it.

As for the capitalization, I have a different view. The practice in the fandom at large, which follows The Pokemon Company International, is to always capitalize Pokemon and their move names. Therefore, that is the standard and you (and Farla’s other followers) are wrong to be telling others what is correct. If you don’t like it, then kindly stay away from my stories, or at the least do not bring it up in reviews, and give me some actual feedback on writing style, or plot, or characterization.

secs agoThe Pokemon Company is wrong. Published media can be wrong. That is a thing. But https://www.fanfiction.net/topic/11834/55376155/1/Capitalization-Thread is the place to go if you want to talk about capitalization. (If you don’t want to talk about capitalization, you shouldn’t bring it up at all. You can ignore things you don’t want to talk about. That is also a thing.)
32m agoMaybe you should also learn to ignore things. You are taking your opinion (or rather, Farla’s opinion) and trying to ram it down others’ throats without realizing that the stories are written in a fantasy world, which may have different grammatical rules. Plus, how can TPCi be wrong when they made up the names? They cannot be wrong for words that they made up.
secs agoWhat a fascinating argument. You should post it in https://www.fanfiction.net/topic/11834/55376155/1/Capitalization-Thread so we can all see how right you are.

You have received a message from:

ChE clarinetist
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/6478348/

Reply link: https://www.fanfiction.net/pm2/post.php?rid=221638480#new
——————–

I see you are just like Farla, a condescending jerk who thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong. Should’ve just listened to a well-respected author and acquaintance on here and just blocked you to begin with.

——————–

re: Your review to Mosaic
Sep 17CrystalRei
A response to your review at https://www.fanfiction.net/r/12654646/

Thank you! I definitely appreciate your thoughts.

//Yesssss. I am very pleased you’re using Leaf.//

Hellz yeah. ;D

//Typo.//

Drat. Fixed.

//Hm… while the god-taming could certainly be surprising, I don’t think making the League as a child is unusual. Your rivals can all keep up with you, after all, and Alola in particular outright bars people past a certain age.//

I guess it depends on how you interpret the verse. Rival can yes, but that’s kinda why they’re in this interview too. In my headcanon, it’s an accomplishment to get all eight badges, much less as fast as these guys did. Beating the League is /really/ impressive, /especially/ at such a young age. I figured journeys can and do take much longer, if only because the routes and cities are scaled up from the games to something fairly realistic (i.e. it takes more than a few hours to travel the distance).

But that’s not something I made immediately clear, or apparently not as well as I should have?

I did not know about Alola barring people over a certain age. I guess since I’m sticking to Gen IV and under I can handwave that little bit away. Maybe as something region-specific?

//Oh, you’re including all the PCs! That’s a nice bit of inclusion… though I’m rather disappointed that so many of the girls end up playing second fiddle.//

Kinda did didn’t they? Though hopefully May makes up for some of that. Of course, the rivals have their canon roles, and they’re all male, so that’s kinda hard to work around. One thing I thought about was that the girls, Crystal in particular, were more involved with the secondary/Legendary plotlines, but those aren’t as well-known to the in-universe public. Crystal outright makes a point of keeping her involvement with Suicune as a secret. (Oh, and Cris also takes over the defeat of Giovanni that happens during the special HGSS time-travel event, minus the time-travel.)

Likewise, I have all three Sinnoh kids at Spear Pillar and in the Distortion World (or at least both Dawn and Lucas for the latter); and Leaf would have found the Rocket Hideout on Five Island and done that whole plotline first.

It was just hard to have that /all/ come up in this interview, especially since I was worried about it dragging. There are still thirteen kids to deal with, after all. I’ll try to bring some of that out in future entries, though I have the first five all planned out so it might be a bit.

//Woah, this is that recent? These kids do not sound like kids at all. Eleven-year-olds shouldn’t be this composed and professional.//

Crap, I was worried about writing kids that young. Though to clarify, Lyra is a year younger than the other Johto kids (I thought I mentioned that in the article snippet), which makes them 12/13 (same age as the Sinnoh kids). Because of the three-year gap between Kanto and Johto, that makes the Kanto kids 15/16. By the order of the regions listed in the first section, that makes the Hoenn kids 14/15-ish.

Hopefully that helps? I actually did an interview for a small, local article thing in eighth grade, and I’d like to think I didn’t do /too/ much worse than these guys. If nothing else, several of them have the benefit of having gone through interviews before, either as champions or as assistants to the assorted professors.

What would you recommend to help with this issue? Would making the kids’ ages clearer alleviate some of it? I’m guessing the ‘barely into their teens’ line in the first section is causing some of the confusion, though I was intending for the reference to be to ‘at the time of their crowning’ (i.e. Red took the championship just before he hit age 12). I’ll add “at the time,” or something like that.

//Ah, that’s a nice gender-flip. Usually it’s the girl who ends up doing research while the boy gets the championship.//

Well I had to do at least one. ;P

//The personalities are decently varied, but I still feel like the sections got very repetitive. All the questions are about training and the League, which are, quite frankly, pretty boring when you’re not playing the games yourself.//

I’m glad the personalities were all individual, but yeah I was worried about that too; especially once I hit Hoenn and Sinnoh. And part of the issue there was that the assorted criminal plotlines were all old news barring maybe Galactic, while it made more sense to me for them to focus on the League because, well, that’s kinda why they’re there.

//Where are the god pokemon? Why don’t they ask questions about the cults? There are a few questions about Team Rocket but nothing about the plot of the other regions.//

I probably should have talked about Team Galactic some more, yeah. Especially with Barry, because I was really struggling with what to do with him. Of course, I wonder if that would fall into the same trap you mentioned about the League questions? As for the Legendary pokémon, that’s one divergence I have from the games in that they’re not caught. They’re not gods, and can be defeated (or at least be worn out enough to be pacified, e.g. Giratina), but still not something any of the kids would actually catch. I guess I’m borrowing a few elements from the manga that way.

I’m shooting for /slightly/ more realistic than the games, but not going dark in a way a lot of others who use that label seem to.

59m ago//which makes them 12/13 (same age as the Sinnoh kids).//Er, shoot, messed that up. I meant /Lyra/ is the same age as the Sinnoh kids, while the Johto kids are a year older.

secs ago[What would you recommend to help with this issue?]

Haha, well there’s not really a good solution to this. Real kids are extremely annoying, so writing them realistically is just going to annoy the readers unless you’re very careful. If you interact with teens on a frequent basis you might be able to use your experience to strike a good balance, but otherwise… unusually mature kids might indeed be the better route to go.

[And part of the issue there was that the assorted criminal plotlines were all old news barring maybe Galactic]

I don’t think world-ending catastrophes become “old news” after just a few years. It usually takes a long time to complete such investigations, especially if people are purposefully keeping secrets like Cris is, and even after official closure there can be wild theories floating around. I imagine there’s still curiosity about the people who, y’know, nearly destroyed the world.

[As for the Legendary pokémon, that’s one divergence I have from the games in that they’re not caught.]

The opening mentions “taming gods”, though, so something big must have gone down even if they weren’t caught.

21m ago//Real kids are extremely annoying, so writing them realistically is just going to annoy the readers unless you’re very careful.//

I’ll grant you middle schoolers, though once you hit high school they don’t seem too bad. I do think that the kids would probably mature faster than those of our world, not just because of all the crap they went through, but quite frankly just the journey itself would count for a lot on that front (especially if society at large sees it as okay to get started that young).

//I don’t think world-ending catastrophes become “old news” after just a few years.//

Fair enough. It’s still not really the reason they’re present at this point in time, but yes I could see it coming up more. Back to the drawing board…

//The opening mentions “taming gods”, though, so something big must have gone down even if they weren’t caught.//

Well yeah, May went and woke up Rayquaza who promptly flew over and told Groudon and Kyogre to sit down and shut up. Granted, I haven’t really nailed down what the public sees/knows, despite Cynthia and likely Steven making public statements about the things.

Honestly, I’m not sure how Cynthia would have handled the whole fiasco at Mt. Coronet, as far as what information she does (or possibly does not) give out. Unlike the whole thing at Sootopolis, well, the direct conflict wasn’t really in the public eye so much.

I wonder if it might be better to talk about these things during the last section where the floor is open to everyone. That’s the easiest opening for a segue I can spot.
(Also, this might be me being OCD but I don’t want the Hoenn and Sinnoh sections to be SO much longer than the Kanto and Johto ones.)

re: Your review to The Balefront Institute
Sep 22The Shadow Master of Weapons
A response to your review at https://www.fanfiction.net/r/12654614/

For Starters, thank you for the comment and all the errors you pointed out. Secondly, apologies for being so late to respond, but I lack personal internet.

I’m sorry if its hard to follow, its something I wrote up for a friend who was very happy with how it is coming out, but he also easily understood what was going on and how I explained things, possibly because he had prior knowledge of the world in general as this was based off a roleplay we did for fun. I will attempt to clear this up in future chapters.

Grammar was never my thing, and I swear that I am trying, but ultimately, I need will openly admit that I need a beta reader, but this project was more done for fun and the person who I did the roleplay with was happy with how it turned out, even if he did say i had some errors. I will once again review the notes over and over again, but i can make no promises about grammer, its just something that does not work with me well… A large flaw that despite attempts to fix, doesn’t take well no matter how hard I try to drill it into my head.

Finally, I would like to thank you for the link to the forum topic you suggested, but I will not be taking that advice for this subject. I will still look it over, but myself and the friend who did this roleplay are happy with rules and world that we built and how it grew over time.

I will be continuing to post this within the pokemon based world that it is set in, but I will try to correct my grammar again and again as much as I am able by myself. Thank you again for all of the advice and help, I hope it sticks with me.

31 Comments

  1. CrazyEd says:
    In the books and mini novelizations that are officially published by the Pokémon Company International

    Dude, you really need to add something like “it’s wrong when the Pokemon Company and Nintendo do it too, and the only reason they do is because trademark and copyright law” or something like this to that copypasta. Just throw it right there in their faces so they can’t even ignore it by not reading the thread. It is by far the most common response to get, and let’s be honest, 90% of the people you’re linking the capitalization thread to aren’t going to click it.

    my loose philosophy is to mostly adhere to game mechanics and come up with story/in-universe reasons why I can hand wave it

    And maybe some kind of “you’re writing a story, not a game, so make it follow narrative rules, not game rules” copypasta.

    I would have included an AU to direct people who haven’t read my other story to my other story. But I realized that if you need a totally separate piece of work to understand what’s going on, you’ve basically failed at general sequel writing.

    This is one of the things I really love about AOOOOOOOO. When I write something set in my AU, if I want to indicate that, I just make it part of the series that begins with the story that establishes the AU.

    Wolves, more specifically a hardened, powerful, and much bigger version of an average wolf

    A person skilled with a knife can kill one on their own.

    Wow, people in this world are hard-fucking-core.

    You’ve got the swear filter on, might want to switch that off.

    Wait, so the swear filter prevents people from seeing your swears, rather than preventing you from seeing other people’s? That’s… what?

    But Pokémon Red is sort of an interactive video game where the player gets to make many choices.

    See what I mean?

    Goshdarnit people step up to the plate.

    I don’t want to sound unnecessarily cruel or mean or anything, but… why? Even if people listen to your advice, what do we actually gain from it? Even though I published my first fanfiction on AO3 solely because of how frustrated I was with the ASOIAF fic on that site, I’m… honestly not sure why you subject yourself to this.

    the stories are written in a fantasy world, which may have different grammatical rules

    Well, that sure is a new one. Thankfully. Though I’m starting to worry about how often I’ve been saying that recently.




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    1. More people reviewing may convince more people to write better, which is the ultimate goal of all of this.




      1
      1. Hinebras says:
        True. People will be willing to put a little more effort into their stories if they feel like they are going to be subjected to an expected standard.

        Bonus points to show them the reality of publishing your work, that there might be people that not like it more legitimate reasons.




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      2. CrazyEd says:
        But why pick the Pokemon community on FFN as your population of people to convince to be better writers?



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        1. HoodedAuthor says:

          Maybe because they’re fans of pokemon and would like to see more better-written pokemon fics?




          2
          1. CrazyEd says:
            Hm, I suppose, but it’s really starting to seem like it’d be more efficient to find good authors and convince them to write Pokemon rather than to find Pokemon authors and convince them to write well at this point.

            Though perhaps my own mentality is colouring my view on this one (as far as wondering why he bothers is concerned). I’m definitely a “if you want something done right, do it yourself” kinda guy, and I could never do reviews like what Mini-Farla does. I have a hard enough time reading huge fanfictions I’m interested in, let alone ones I’m reading just to critique. You’d have to pay me to be an editor to do that.

            And on top of that, well… if you’ve ever read my comments here, you know that I can be pretty harsh and completely unable to sugar-coat things, so I fear that it’d be a waste of time from the get-go.




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            1. Mainly, I think it comes down to practice. Pokemon fandom has a number of very specific problems that Farla hashed out the answers to ages ago. That makes the copypasta style a lot quicker and easier. If we moved to another fandom, we’d have to spend a long time seeing what problems are endemic and coming up with good responses to them. (I can confirm that her Homestuck reviews take much longer to write, for instance.)

              For me at least, I also feel like I don’t want to read fanfiction of stories I actually like, because then the chances of getting something as good or better than the original are slimmer. With Pokemon I don’t really mind since it’s light on canon details so I don’t care if everyone writes Ash wrong or whatever. But like, you saw my Gravity Falls reviews, right? It was just endless ranting that everyone was out of character. I feel like all that can do is warp my understanding and enjoyment of the original. Pokemon is a nice sweet spot of “I don’t care about the bad writers ruining canon, but it could be interesting in the hands of a good writer.”

              I have considered dipping into Adventure Time at some point since it’s a similarly freeform setting, but we’d still have the problem that everyone writes my favorite character wrong, which would just make me froth at the mouth after prolonged exposure. (And judging by AOOO at least, it has the same original fiction problem as Gravity Falls.)




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              Reply
            2. CrazyEd says:
              (I can confirm that her Homestuck reviews take much longer to write, for instance.)

              … She used to review Homestuck fanfiction? That’s… If you gaze into the mouth of Oblivion, the mouth gazes back.

               But like, you saw my Gravity Falls reviews, right?

              Nope! That was before my time.

              It was just endless ranting that everyone was out of character.

              But this, I can easily imagine. This is the reason I wrote fanfiction in the first place. It’s a large chunk of why I don’t do the same thing for ASOIAF on AO3.

              I have considered dipping into Adventure Time

              I shudder at the thought. You’re a far braver man than I am.




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            3. Oh no, does AT fandom have some reputation I’m not aware of?




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            4. CrazyEd says:
              Not that I know of. I’m just guessing based on the combination of “adventure time”, “fandom”, and “fanfiction authors”. It probably isn’t as bad as Gravity Falls, but still.



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            5. Farla says:

              The nature of fanfic means it’s not particularly easy to get people in one fandom to jump ship to another.

              People who habitually jump generally do it to chase the biggest crowds for attention. Infamous for writing the same story (with the same characters) over and over in every fandom and for promptly jumping back out of the fandom to chase the next big thing. So, pretty much impossible to hook one, and wouldn’t produce anything of interest if we did.

              Good writers of other fandoms who occasionally dip into ours produce, going by the recs of outsiders for good pokefic, decently written fic that doesn’t really engage with anything new because they’ve only just started thinking about the fandom. So trying to collect one-off fics from random good outsiders wouldn’t be all that interesting either.

              You simply don’t get interesting fanfic except by someone who’s really fannish about the subject and has thought a lot about it, and it’s pretty much impossible to convince a random author in another fandom to feel that way about your own fandom.




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            6. CrazyEd says:
              The nature of fanfic means it’s not particularly easy to get people in one fandom to jump ship to another.

              I’m not quite clear what you mean by this. Is there some unique thing about fanfiction in specific that makes this harder than usual or are you talking about fanfic as part of the generally obsessive fandom trend in general?

              it’s pretty much impossible to convince a random author in another fandom to feel that way about your own fandom.

              I think this is part of my general lack of understanding of fandom culture and mentality. I don’t really consider myself part of any fandom; not even the things I’m insanely passionate about. I used to be part of the Exalted subcommunity (about 30 – 50 regulars) in a larger RPG community, but it felt substantially different from what people describe “fandoms” as being like.

              So while there are people obsessing over this one thing and having to cram literally everything into this one thing (like all those totally unrelated to the source material modern day AUs of ASOIAF I keep complaining about here), or hopping from Thing to Thing to Thing to Thing and acting in the It fandom exactly like they did in the Homestuck fandom (and creating fandoms for things that aren’t even out yet, like how the Wreck-it Ralph fandom massively proceeded the release of the movie), I’m here wracking my brain and perusing AO3 for ideas on a new category to contribute to because I want to do something other than ASOIAF for a bit. I’ve only written 11,851 words in that category, and already, I feel like I want to do something else for at least three or four thousand words. You know, just to get a little bit of variety in my bibliography.

              And I know what you’re going to say: Why not try Pokemon? And to that, it’s just like… I dunno, I just can’t seem to see it as enough of a setting or something. And I definitely prefer using settings to using characters. I just never feel like I’m portraying them correctly. I think Pokemon just feels like too much of a thing that exists to facilitate a video game for me to use it in a narrative context and I don’t know enough about the fandom and gamer culture to write something that uses pokemon as a franchise (like what I did in that “pokemon” fic I wrote for you).

              I recently got my hands back on my old RPG book collection, which I haven’t been able to read for like three years now, so I’m thinking of doing something with that. Revisit some of my old ideas that never materialized into games. Most of my best Shadowrun characters weren’t actually shadowrunners. Could do something with one of them, or something.




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            7. Farla says:

              And I know what you’re going to say: Why not try Pokemon? And to that, it’s just like… I dunno, I just can’t seem to see it as enough of a setting or something. 

              Well, no, I wouldn’t, because that’s precisely why I’m saying I don’t try to lure in good authors rather than improve bad authors already here. Authors are writing what they write because they’re already engaged with that canon, and people can’t choose to be personally invested in something else when they’re asked to.

              Which actually applies for reviewing as well – I enjoy reading crappy fic if it’s about a subject matter that can make me think about other, less crappy possibilities. Reviewing someone’s fanfic in a canon I don’t care about? That is work, and I do demand some form of payment for it, and also, I likely don’t do as good a job of those reviews as someone who loved that type of story, just as authors given some sort of payment to produce fanfic in a given fandom (usually attention, sometimes now literally money) tend to produce crappier and less canon-focused stuff.




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            8. CrazyEd says:
              Authors are writing what they write because they’re already engaged with that canon, and people can’t choose to be personally invested in something else when they’re asked to.

              See, I think I’m emotionally invested enough in Pokemon to write for it. That shit was my childhood and all. But… I just don’t think I could do it from a writing perspective.

              When I’ve gone through my own personal list of interests, specifically looking for a new category to branch out into and write fiction for, most of the ones that have been crossed off the list of possibilities weren’t crossed off because I wasn’t interested enough, but because I didn’t think they would translate well into my style of fanfiction.




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      3. Lud says:
        I came here from another topic (and I will leave if I’m told to, I’m not here to fight anyone). This isn’t a review I found “mean spirited” or “gatekeeping”, but I was told this was where the conversation about “why this is being done” was taking place.

        I know my argument is not new, and has been more eloquently stated by others, but… Fanfiction writers may be kids. They may be from non-english speaking countries. They might be having a hard time offline, who knows.

        They’re writing made up stories about some cartoon. They’re doing it for fun. (for attention, for their friends, whatever, it’s not my place to judge that)

        More people reviewing will certainly influence a writer to write MORE. (“Better” would be another matter.)

        I don’t think a copypasted text will make them want to write “better”.

        You have a standard of quality. There’s nothing wrong with that!

        You seem to want to make people adhere to your standard or…be ridiculed, or something. “Look at the silly things this person said in a PM, I’m posting them online for everyone to see.” That’s…not so cool.

        Nobody gets to say “You have to be THIS good at writing to participate in fandom”

        I admit to skipping these posts, so I may not know the whole thing, but as far as I know these reviews are unsolicited. Like, you found the story, read it, pasted your thing, waited for reactions?

        Why don’t you do some kind of contest? Or become some kind of promotion blog?(I probably don’t have the right word there, sorry).  Some writers are starved for reviews, let them submit their work to your blog and THEN you can tell them whatever you want, as they agreed beforehand.

        My ideas are rough, I know, but what I mean is, surely there is another way to create a positive influence in a fandom that this one, that makes some writers think you’re “flaming”,”trolling”,whatever.

         




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        1. I admit to skipping these posts, so I may not know the whole thing, but as far as I know these reviews are unsolicited. Like, you found the story, read it, pasted your thing, waited for reactions?

          Wow, it’s almost like I… used the comment feature on a public website or something. Wow. I’m such a monster.

          Nobody gets to say “You have to be THIS good at writing to participate in fandom”

          You do realize it’s literally impossible for me to do this, right? I have no power to control authors or even force them to talk, and the site has a built-in feature to give them ultimate veto power over me. This conception of Farla and me as controlling tyrants is pure fantasy.

          The purpose of PM reposts has been discussed here. I really do wish they weren’t necessary (I don’t do it for AOOO reviews), but they are.




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          1. Lud says:
            I certainly don’t think of you as a controlling tyrant (or a monster).

            I’ve read your goal in this kind of reviewing was to “improve the general quality” of fanfics. I’m not sure you’re going about it in the most constructive way, but …to each their own.

            I’m sure there are people who read your reviews of their fics and say “Thanks, I’ll fix this!” or some variation of that.

            But I could think of so many reasons for a kid to read your reviews/ see the followup posted here and…panic, or feel super defensive, or get sad.

            Now you’ll say something like “That’s not my responsability!” and I don’t think it is your responsability.

            But If you’re a grownup, remember when you were a kid, how important everything was. Maybe that’s why they write back in anger.

            And of course, some are probably just rude and obnoxious because there are lots of rude and obnoxious people.

            You don’t have to do anything just because I said so, or change anything in the way you review, or write, or post.

            I spoke up because I noticed at least two instances where it seemed like an author felt bullied or trolled. (I’m not saying you bullied them, but I say they seemed to feel bullied/trolled, and I can see why your chosen method would make them think so.)

            I disagree with the way you chose to improve your fandom, but that’s the extent of my “beef” with you and I won’t pester you any more about it.




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            1. Lud says:
              oh shit, I left a heart on my own post and didn’t mean it, I’m super sorry and don’t know how to remove it XD.



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            2. CrazyEd says:
              But I could think of so many reasons for a kid to read your reviews/ see the followup posted here and…panic, or feel super defensive, or get sad.

              Most authors, at least in the subcommunity of Pokemon authors, appear to be in the 18 to 22 range. But regardless, leaning to take (or, as Mini-Farla is quick to mention, ignoring) criticism is an important part of growing as an author.

              I’m not saying you bullied them, but I say they seemed to feel bullied/trolled, and I can see why your chosen method would make them think so.

              If they feel bullied by an explanation of proper dialogue formatting, they’re probably going to feel bullied by literally any critique, and nothing can be done for that. If someone is so thin-skinned that the only two options are “lavishing praise” and “bullying”, that is itself a problem.




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            3. Okay, let’s learn from my last mishap and establish some things first.

              What exactly are you trying to argue here? Do you have a moral objection to my actions, a practical objection (i.e. I could accomplish my goals more effectively through a different method), or something else? We’re going to be arguing at cross-purposes unless we can choose one sphere to focus on.




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            4. Act says:

              If someone is so thin-skinned that the only two options are “lavishing praise” and “bullying”, that is itself a problem.

              The crux of this — of all of it — is really that everyone think they’re great. No one posts stuff they think is shit, they post it thinking it will be lavished with praise, and when that doesn’t happen their pride is offended, but they have enough shame not to admit that, and come up with whatever the nearest justification is to not listen, where it’s making themselves a victim or debating capitalization or whatever. This is the explanation for 99% of the responses, possibly more. People absolutely 100% post expecting only praise and blame the messenger when they don’t get it.




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            5. Act says:

              @Lud, the heart removal thing is indeed a flaw off the new like system. Don’t worry about it. I continue to search for a better one.




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            6. CrazyEd says:
              No one posts stuff they think is shit, they post it thinking it will be lavished with praise, and when that doesn’t happen their pride is offended

              I’m curious what that means for me. As much as I liked when people posted comments saying “hey, this was really good”, I am extremely disappointed by my lack of “hey, you can do better” comments.

              It’s probably a result of posting on AO3 and the review culture and all that stuff blah, blah, blah, but c’mon people engage with the story and tell me all the parts that don’t make sense! Or at least tell me what you liked! If all you’re going to do is leave a “hey, I liked this” comment, that’s what kudos are for!

              (Alternatively, I just need to write slightly worse stories, because when I’ve linked them on far less forgiving communication mediums to people far more willing to criticize me when I deserve it, I’ve received nothing but positive response as well… even on the fics I intentionally wrote to be terrible things that should never have existed. But to be fair, I’m only friends with the sort of people who are precisely that sort of terrible themselves.)




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            7. If all you’re going to do is leave a “hey, I liked this” comment, that’s what kudos are for!

              Haha oh Farla’s gonna be mad at you now. She hates kudosing.




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            8. CrazyEd says:
              I don’t really like it either, but I like it better than a comment that just says something like “hey, I like this!” without explaining why or anything more substantial than that for me to actually engage with. That’s not really any more useful or meaningful to me than a kudos.

              I basically treat the little heart-shaped like button on this blog identically to how I treat kudos on AO3.




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            9. Farla says:

              Do you feel like you have to engage with every comment? I think that’s where the kudos/comment opinion divide comes from. “Hey I liked it!” means more than a kudos because it takes more effort and is impossible to do by accident, but I feel no more obligation to respond to it than I would a kudos.




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            10. CrazyEd says:
              Do you feel like you have to engage with every comment?

              No, but at this point, I get so few comments that I want to, and every comment I have no ability or desire to engage with is a letdown.




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            11. Farla says:

              Yeah, but someone who regularly types “lol cool” has much less of a barrier to adding “my favorite part was…” and so on, while for someone who just clicks a button, even if they do have something more to say, there’s a good chance they won’t say it.




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            12. CrazyEd says:
              I dunno, that seems like an infinitesimally small difference in energy expenditure.



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            13. Farla says:

              The issue is that starting anything at all is the hardest part. Facebook and other places have found that putting in sample text makes people far more likely to say something, either a modified version of the text or something completely different. “I liked this!” as a default is similar. It gives people somewhere to start.




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    2. GoldenFalls says:

      Swear filter censors other people’s swears, which is why it looks like StElmo typed K** instead of KKK.




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